Jason Miller recently attended a debate featuring Milo Yiannopoulos and Julie Bindel entitled, “Feminism v. Meninism.” I hired Jason to do some free-lance reporting on social justice warriors on college campuses, and he did not disappoint me. You can learn more about Jason here.
Last night my partner I went went to see MiloYiannopoulos debate Julie Bindel in a “feminism vs meninism” debate.
Walking through the campus of U of M felt like returning to a place you were as a child as an adult and seeing how much smaller that big world had become.
It’s where I was introduced to politics, the ideas of thinking critically, to unlearn things you’ve learned and empty your cup to receive new knowledge. To always be flowing, never rigid and dogmatic. Willing to hear out at least opposing views.
I remember a sociology professor starting a semester saying “the truth, SHOULD make you uncomfortable”. Truths are not self-serving but we have to face them to truly consider how to eliminate problems and suffering in the world. Obviously this flies against the ideas of a “safe space”. He’d occasionally stop on topic to discuss something someone had on in the room that was manufactured in sweatshops, or in my case being a young aspiring DJ/producer to speak about conflict materials used in jewelry and the DeBeers monopoly on diamonds and their artificial scarcity.
I felt so stupid at the time I wanted to retreat to my “safe space”.
This is “my culture” after all what a “microaggression”. Literally every rapper can’t be supporting something that hurts people across the globe so much. But it was an uncomfortable truth that became the seed of an idea and a lot of activism I did and a interest in social justice. Then from that activism more seeds grew.
I was into animal activism and had to ask myself how much human cost and capital is worth it vs demonstrating the benefits of veganism through my own life. I left other forms of activism because I had to ask myself similar questions. Questions I don’t see a lot of activists asking themselves right now.
What the new generation of students were like? Has U of M really become the place we can’t even ask the question that we might be doing something wrong for fear of making people uncomfortable?
I’ve changed a lot since my days there. I stopped identifying with feminism a couple of years ago.
Not because I took the belief that men are superior or I don’t believe in social and economic freedom for everyone, but because I don’t believe feminism still stands for freedom of speech. In today’s working world there is no reason a woman shouldn’t be able to compete with a man in STEM, engineering, especially marketing and sales.
The key is she has to put the work in. Modern 3rd wave feminism seems to be about taking the work out.
I will always support women kicking ass. Modern third wave feminism doesn’t seem to have any questions about the amount of suffering they are willing to inflict. They are as I’d say back then running the race with the blinders on. Unable to see they are being ridden by the powerful, third wave feminism’s version social order is identical to the old social order.
Rich people are at the top, telling everyone else what to say, how to behave.
The most important part of “speaking truth to power” is not acting like the powerful when you get power.
We’ve seen from authoritarian feminists they are more than willing to regulate sexuality, what you can see, hear, listen to, believe, say when they get the chance.
My partner strongly identifies as feminist, stays up on all the latest hashtags, we even met discussing GamerGate. The one thing I always respected about her is she can always listen to new ideas so I wouldn’t consider her an SJW.
We had both went to see WWE Raw that night and we were both expecting another Smackdown, rooting for our sides. The event was filled to capacity, expecting pageantry through protestors, maybe a fire alarm would get pulled or a fight would start but thankfully everyone behaved like adults with class..most of the time. A barely noticeable group of protestors were escorted out and there was a safe space adult day care center across the street for them.
The debate went differently than we both expected and we both left thinking about something differently.
I saw a different side to feminism that I frequently see through gaming, tech, and the internet. One that actually cares about the people at the bottom as much if not more than the whims and personal preferences of privileged white females. I’m more than willing to push from the bottom for women and everybody as long as they can pull from the top but not when the top cares more about lining their pockets and profiles than pulling up for the people at the bottom.
Julie Bindel isn’t a cartoon character, dressed as a cereal mascot I could snap a quick picture of and screenshot of an inane blurb about lightbulbs being sexist for an easy laugh on my blog/twitter out for what I’ve called “convenience feminism” and she calls “fun feminism” where anything goes regardless of how destructive it is towards themselves, other people, classes, and men are expected to be captain-save-a-hoe against their arch nemesis enemies: responsibility, truth, discipline, accountability, their actions leading to obvious negative consequences and most of all shame. Not shame in the slut shaming sense but the type of shame a person should have from having no goals.
Convenience feminism is usually practiced by women that come to work late, on drugs, take a two-hour lunch, steal money, then leave early for her free burlesque show nobody wanted then complain when she gets fired and doesn’t get enough benefits, starts fights on YouTube talking shit over wifi with her broke ass, putting out people’s addresses, stalking a baby daddy then someone puts her address out and the porn she did.
Then the Daily Kose writes an article proclaiming them a helpless victim, calls their professionally shot and signed release pornography “revenge porn” with a link to their go fund me for them to make YouTube videos about feminism that will be years behind schedule and pathetic men rush in to white knight and be the next baby daddy.
Ironically, convenience feminism works entirely around male power, male enablers running it directly into the glass ceiling.
Or as another example a woman that’s hit more rappers than Suge Knight to maintain a lifestyle but don’t you dare call her a “groupie hoe” because she has her own slutwalk!
No doubt feminism has become a toxic and repressive movement, concerned more with what shirt you’re wearing, or what video games you play and definitely the money they can make “consulting” or through patreon than root inequality issues or even challenging Islamic fascists as quickly as they would challenge soft targets like nerds or comic book readers.
Bindel doesn’t strike me as the type of grievance monger who would call the FBI before fainting on a couch on the way to the United Nations to give a speech while playing on her cell phone because she got roasted on Twitter. She seems like the kind that can roast back. She has something I’ve found lacking in modern activists.
Bindel changed the entire nature of the debate by saying feminism shouldn’t be against free speech.
Real feminists support free speech, that the right to freely and openly express and exchange ideas is crucial. After all imagine how many “microaggressions” and how “unsafe” people felt during the civil rights movement, reconstruction era, even having Irish, or Italians around at certain parts of American history. Julie took the stance that real feminists welcome open debate(I hope many more take notes).
Milo made that point that feminists fight against free speech and exists in a quantum superstate of victim and aggressor. They engage in the worst behaviors and cry the minute an ounce of that is turned back on them. That is part of what I’d call “convenience feminism” we’ve all seen it and documented it over the past few years, leading to the sentiment that many of us would rather have cancer than feminism. They need to stifle free speech on universities, in the media, on the internet because even a moron can tell they are wrong and are going to fail.
Milo said the highly reasonable statement that anyone who is afraid of exploring new ideas and open debate in college that needs safe spaces or trigger warnings should be expelled. Why not? They clearly aren’t willing to learn.
We all hopefully know Milo, controversial, but hard-working, willing to say the uncomfortable truth and a little extra. They’ve both been no platformed from other Universities and were welcomed at U of M.
They debated the wage gap, Milo made the great point that the pay gap favors women under 30 and women simply make different life choices. Many are choosing families, taking more sick days and vacations, Julie said Milo had a very 1950’s mindset and that when even job types, education and age are accounted for there is still a gap even in the highest playing fields such as judges, lawyers. Also that women aren’t as assertive about pay raises.
The next topic was affirmative action. Julie brought up the point that we don’t particularly like affirmative action but as idealistic as we’d like to be about meritocracy, we know most of the world works based on who you know, who you like, and cronyism so how else can we convince employers to hire and promote different people on a large-scale than through affirmative action? Milo asked by what measurement do we ensure we have enough women when there are more women in colleges than men? Why don’t they ever worry about the quotas on road construction, driving trucks or waste management services?
He also brought up as far as education goes we need to improve education rather than send people to courses they aren’t ready for. I agree with that, in Detroit at least charter schools have been a big boost
to our deteriorating corrupt public school system. Bindel brought up social disadvantage which is another huge part of the equation. From experience it was difficult even thinking of going to university, until I went to a charter school, and I probably had some help from affirmative action which is why I am writing this today, and not a pimp.
With the internet we’ve moved into almost gated ideological communities where one side can no platform anyone.
I went into this as a Milo fanboy, I’ve been on his shows, he’s been on my hangout ect, planning to write something completely different about crazy feminists and their wild antics in Michigan, shoot some video of tumblr in the wild and was confronted with ideas that made me uncomfortable.
My girl has only heard of Milo in the sense one hears of the Jersey Devil wanted to capture the “MRA” in the wild and ended up thinking differently on some things she thought she knew. We both thought the kids were going to be a mess but the kids are alright.(mostly) Ultimately neither Milo nor Julie are god and are not infallible, they both can say controversial things, and a lot of impressive things.
I truly believe the majority of us are adults that can take ideas that are useful, think on them and discard the chaff. They both had plenty of jokes about vegans but I’m not such a special snowflake the thought of someone eating meat breaks me.
Ironically the LGBT center hosted the safe space away from a dangerous faggot and a lesbian.
I had an entirely different opinion on Julie before this as did my partner on Milo both of us through word of mouth on our social media spheres we might never have moved on if it weren’t for this debate.
I might even have a bit of respect for feminism if I didn’t start this morning reading about trigger warnings for the Lion King showing. S
eriously just expel the safe spacers.
Besides that the Michigan review should be proud of this event as should U of M. Hail to the Victors!