What happened when I took 5-MeO-DMT and experienced the feeling of death? Is there a God? What is the Divine? Do I believe in Source? What is the pineal glad and why does DMT pass the blood-brain barrier?
Find out in the latest Danger & Play Podcast. Scroll down for the full transcript. (Part 2 can be found at the bottom of the page or here on SoundCloud.)
Click play or go to iTunes (and rate me while you’re there).
Part 2: What Happens When the Third Eye Stares Back at You?
- DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor’s Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences (Amazon)
- Blood-brain barrier (Wiki)
- Dimethyltryptamine / DMT (Wiki)
- Pineal gland (Wiki)
- The hard problem of consciousness (Wiki)
- “Sudden death due to a glial cyst of the pineal gland” (PubMed)
- “Descartes and the Pineal Gland” (Stanford Dictionary of Philosophy)
- The Mind’s I Fantasies And Reflections On Self & Soul (Amazon)
Today we’re going to talk about the divine.
What is the divine? Is there such a thing as the divine? Is this world that we see all that there is? Am I an atheist? Should I be an atheist?
During this conversation I’m going to talk about my own use of drugs. The disclaimer applies and this is a sincere disclaimer: If you are under 25 I don’t believe you should be taking any kind of drugs. I think you should let your brain fully develop and the male brain is not fully developed until you are around 25.
That isn’t just a disclaimer I put on there to protect myself from lawsuits. That is a disclaimer that I live by. I didn’t start experimenting with these drugs until I was in my 30s. That might be taking things too conservatively but I think if you are 18, 19, 20 you shouldn’t be taking anything stronger than fish oil and maybe an over the counter nootropic.
The second introductory point goes to my atheist readers. In an earlier podcast I mentioned that I do believe in some sort of divine and I’m not an atheist. I think that atheism is not a logical position.
And I got a few comments that went along this line: “I’m very very surprised that someone of your intelligence believes in either religion or the existence of a god when there is no rational evidence in favor of and a plethora of obvious evidence against existing. It’s an irrational baseless belief with no merit which serves only to comfort those who need it.”
So I have a couple points to that.
One is, if you read someone and consider someone to be of obvious intelligence, then perhaps you should open your mind. There are a lot of intelligent people who believe in the existence of a divine.
Also, do I strike you as the kind of person who needs to believe in a divine to have some sort of comfort or delusional reality? I don’t think so. I actually think it’s atheists who don’t want to believe in god because it makes them uncomfortable. Because if you are an atheist, you have closed your mind to possibilities and opportunities. And because of that you can feel comfortable, you get over the dissonance. You get over the hard questions. For example in college I read all the great books on consciousness. Are you an atheist and have you read all of the books on consciousness? Go read about the hard problem of consciousness. I’ll link to on Wikipedia.
That kind of stuff will keep you up at night. In terms of consciousness, I would just say where is your rational evidence for the proposition that I have consciousness? Prove that I have consciousness. You can’t.
Philosophers have been trying to do it for years. Daniel Dennet who is a smug atheist prick, he can’t prove consciousness exists. He wrote a book called Consciousness Explained. That was pretty much shredded to pieces and he ignored the hard problems of consciousness.
You can’t prove that I have consciousness and I can’t prove that you have consciousness because consciousness is a subjective experience of a supposedly objective reality.
So if you can’t even explain consciousness and show that consciousness is a scientific fact, then how can you tell me that you’re an atheist? Because clearly there are phenomena that we don’t understand.
So those are the 2 points.
1. If you’re an atheist, you need to approach this stuff with an open mind.
2. If you are young, even though I talk about drugs, I don’t want you taking them and that’s sincere.
I myself didn’t take them so I’m not being a hypocrite here.
Like a lot of people who read Danger & Play, I didn’t believe in any kind of divine or any sort of god because I said, “Well there’s no rational evidence for the existence of god.”
And then I took this drug. It’s called 5-MeO-DMT and it is a cousin to DMT. And I’ll explain more what DMT is, how it operates, and I’ll link to all this stuff in the podcast. What 5-MeO-DMT does is, it causes your ego death. How do you even what the ego death is?
I can’t explain it in words that anyone will understand. I can only explain it in terms of my own story. So I went into this weird house in Hollywood. The windows are blacked out and there is this guy who considers himself a shaman or a religious guy. And I went into this experience with about the worst attitude that anyone could have.
A friend of mine said let’s try this stuff out. I said I don’t really like people who do those kinds of drugs. So we go in and it’s pretty much my worst nightmare. Every cliché is true. This guy has a knife and a serpent thing setup and it’s just corny beyond belief. I could just think to myself, “This is somebody who played Dungeons and Dragons as a kid, never really had any friends. Now he plays Dungeons and Dragons in real life because it you want to get the drugs you kind of have to play his game.”
I looked around and there are people with tie-dye clothes on and Burning Man garb. They call it tribal wear or something. I’m just looking around and I’m like, “I just hate everybody in here. Why am I here?”
I thought about getting up MANY times. We had this bizarro ceremony where the guy tries to do some polytheist inclusive ceremony of all religions, the serpents, and he’s what you would consider a textbook gamma male.
There was even a point where, I was sitting next to a girl and apparently I was too close to her because he said, “Hey you need to move away from her.” She kind of looked at him weird, and I looked at him weird because everybody was in a circle and apparently I was an inch too close to her.
And again, the whole scene was him having the good drugs and therefore trying to exert power and status over everyone else. So if anybody would not have any kind of experience with 5-MeO-DMT I would be the guy. I hated everybody in there. I wanted to get out. But I said, “You got to stay. You have to try it man.”
It took all of my willpower not to laugh at these idiots and get out of there. So we go through this weird two-hour ceremony. He talks about the experience and tries to make it more than it is. Because what you do is, you vaporize this white powder. This white powder is synthesized in a lab and it has neurochemical properties.
So I’m thinking to myself, “You’re an idiot. This is just a drug like any other drug. Just give me the drug.” But you have to do the ceremony; you have to put up with all these idiots. People are all [makes ethereal Georgian chant sounds] and chanting weird shit. And talking about entheogens and everyone wants to talk about how cool they are with psychedelics and so it was a scene.
And I’m not into scenes at all. So I’m just in a bad mood. And then he said, “Well who wants to go first?” And I’m thinking, “Of course I want to go first because I don’t want to be around these idiots any longer.”
I hadn’t read anything about 5-MeO-DMT because I didn’t want to bias my experience.
I wanted to do it as scientifically as possible and by that I mean I didn’t know what it did other than the so-called ego death. I had no expectations and therefore I’m not going to get a placebo effect because I hate everybody in the room. I hate the whole process and I don’t want to be there. I’m only forcing myself to be there because my life is art. I do things just because I want to experience the process of it and learn more about what it means to be human. And to learn about the limits of consciousness and to learn about the limits of spirituality, so I had to make myself do it.
So if anybody is going to be biased, it’s me. And if anybody is going to be biased in a way that’s negative toward this type of experience it’s going to be me. So they have this air mattress in the middle of the room and they call it a launching pad because again, everything has to couched in this mystical “woo woo” new age stuff.
So you’re sitting there in comfortable clothes and he says, “Are you ready?”
And I say, “Yeah I’m ready.”
And the vaporizer is a plastic tube with a cap on top of it and you light it up, take it and inhale it and it just drops all in at once. So I sit there, I take the drop, and I fall back immediately. And when I fall back, you’re gone.
I’ve been knocked out unconscious in a fight, had my bell rung, flash knocked out in boxing matches. You are down for the count. You are knocked out unconscious in a sense. I fall back and my eyes are closed. Then I start to see these fractals and these geometric shapes. The shapes, they look like wings on either end and the wings have triangles of very vivid different colors on the side of them.
And as I’m lying back, I feel like my body is travelling faster than the speed of light. If you’ve ever seen Star-Trek or any of those sci-fi movies where they go into warp speed or even in Star Wars where Hans Solo goes into warp speed and you see all the stars disappearing.
That’s how I felt. Except I felt that my soul or whatever you want to call it was being pulled away from my body and the acceleration was so fast that I felt like I was getting motion sickness.
So it’s spinning and I start to get terrified. I was afraid and I said to myself, “I don’t want to die. I don’t want to die. I don’t want to be here. This is bad. I don’t want to be here.” And it was the most terrified I’d been, to the extent that I was awake, maybe in all my life.
And I’m like, “I don’t want to die.” But I was dying and I didn’t really understand what was happening. So I fought the experience, I fought the process and I willed myself.
“I don’t want to die. I don’t want to die. I don’t want to die. I don’t want to die. I don’t want to die.” And I woke up and I look at the wall and I’m like, “OK I’m back. I’m back. I’m back.”
I can see the ceiling and I’m thinking, “I just want to get up now. I’m lying down on this air mattress, I want to get up.”
From lucid dreaming, you learn that if you are doing a lucid dreaming, the way that you ground yourself is that you look at your arm or leg or foot or any part of your body to sort of ground your consciousness and connect it with your body.
And I look at my arm: “OK, I see my arm. Wait…I don’t have an arm.”
And I felt my entire body was molded or merged to the air mattress to, that I didn’t exist in a three-dimensional reality.
That I was, that my molecules, my atoms were completely bonded to the atoms in the air couch.
And I keep using the word “I” and this is what I mean by the ego death. I looked around and I had no sense of my body, the “I”, the ego. This part that separates you from me. We think of ego in the sense of “Well he’s egotistical” And that egotistical-ness or that narcissism is just a manifestation of the ego which is just the concept of the “I” right? The consciousness.
If you have consciousness that means you have an “I.”
And your ego no longer exists. You don’t view yourself as “I.” You just view yourself as existing with everything. My body was clammy and it was sweaty. I’m trying to get back, I’m trying to get up, and I can’t get up. I want to retake possession of my physical body, with again, my consciousness, my soul. I don’t understand what happened. I still don’t understand it. I have some ideas. We’re going to talk about that more.
And I’m like “OK I got to get up.”
And the people were like, “You need to take more.”
And I said, “No, I’m not taking any more.”
Because, I’m going to admit it to you guys, I was afraid.
I was dying.
Whatever it feels like to die, I don’t know because I’ve obviously never been dead and I’ve never talked to anybody who’s actually been dead and come back.
But whatever you could imagine it feels like to die…that’s what was happening.
I was dying.
“You got to take more.”
“No that was enough for me.”
I said I’m not ready to die today.
I’m there and I’m looking and I finally kind of sit down. And then of course they bring food and they call it…what do you call a big platter of food? They don’t call it a big platter of food, it was called, again, so “woo woo” name.
Everything has a “woo woo” name.
And they said, “Here eat a pineapple.” So a put a pineapple piece in my mouth and again, the “I” is dead. So I didn’t eat the pineapple. I felt it merge into my mouth. So when I took a bite of it, whatever the pineapple juice is or whatever, became one at the same time with my mouth.
Again, this won’t make a lot of sense unless you’ve actually done it.
And this is why it doesn’t make a lot of sense for people who are atheist to said “Oh well, it’s not rational.”
I know what I experienced. I know what my senses experienced. And if you’ve never done this, you simply cannot understand it. You can’t analyze this in any kind of Western mode of thinking.
So I eat a couple pineapples and I start to become grounded with the world and I look around and I’m like, “OK I need to get off this.” So I go over to the side of this air mattress. This girl comes over. This girl that I had hated 20 minutes ago because she was wearing those stupid long skirts and tie-dyes and I remember thinking, “This is the most beautiful girl I’ve ever seen in my life.”
Objectively speaking, she wasn’t that physically attractive and I wasn’t sexually attracted to her. And that’s what I mean with the ego death.
All I could think about now was, “I hope she’s OK. I hope everybody here has enough money. I wonder if there is any way I could help these people? Man. This girl is just so beautiful. So amazing. Does she need money? Is everybody OK here? I hope everybody’s OK.”
And for the next half hour all I could think was that I wanted everybody in the room to be OK.
I want everybody to be safe and secure and have all of their needs met. The reason I felt that way is because when your ego dies, you no longer have this separation between “us,” and you no longer have this separation “them.”
And that gave me a really great insight into people like Mother Theresa and other people who devote their lives to the service of others. I always thought, “Well those people are just frauds?” You’re self-interested right? I was a reductionist in the sense that I bought into the Thomas Hobbes’s conception of self-interest. Well really the only reason you help people is because that meets some need that you have and really therefore everything that you do is ultimately selfish. And that was the kind of reductionist argument that I bought into. But when you do something like this, you realize that that’s bullshit.
You realize that people like Mother Theresa or monks might be self-interested. But they might just be dialed into themselves in a way that the rest of us aren’t. At that time I wasn’t self-interested. I didn’t want to make people feel good because it would make me feel good.
I did not have a “Self.”
I did not have a conception of me.
I did not have a conception of “there is a separation between the other people in the group and between me.”
I didn’t have the conception that there was a separation between me and a pineapple.
So all of these reductionist arguments that I had bought into, all of this nonsense that “everything you do is self-interested and ultimately you’re selfish in the end…” complete bullshit. And it just shows a lack of understanding that other people are dialed in differently.
Now why are we dialed in differently? Why are we dialed in different?
Ever since that happened I wanted to study the science of it of course because I was like, “Well what happened? How did that happen?”
And then there is something called the pineal gland. And the pineal gland (this is all discussed in a book called DMT: The Spirit Molecule and I’ll link to that at DangerAndPlay.com), it’s still not really understood what is done but some philosophers believed it was the seat of the soul. That it was what gave you the so-called ego. Descartes believed it was what was responsible for your consciousness.
5-MeO-DMT and its cousin DMT hit your pineal gland and they cause these so-called hallucinogenic experiences.
Now let’s talk about that for a minute.
What do I mean by, “They hit your pineal gland?” I’m going to link to all this stuff at the website because, this is all science.
The blood-brain barrier, if you read the Wikipedia, says it’s a “highly selective permeability barrier that separates the circulating blood from the brain extracellular fluid (BECF) in the central nervous system (CNS).”
If you’ve ever taken anatomy and physiology and hear “Such and such molecule passes the blood-brain barrier.” Most things don’t pass the blood-brain barrier. Certain bacteria don’t, otherwise we’d have bacterial infections in our brain right?
If you think about it, bacteria rot your body but for the most part it doesn’t rot your brain. So why is it that DMT or 5-MeO-DMT passes the blood-brain barrier? If this is stuff that we don’t need or that is garbage, why does it pass it? These are the types of questions to ask.
If you read for example about DMT, and again I’ll link to it, read what the so-called scientists say. “DMT is a psychedelic compound of the tryptamine family.” It is a powerful hallucinogen.
So when you read these scientific articles, don’t be like people on Reddit who read things uncritically. Read things like you’re a philosopher or a lawyer. Why is it that DMT is a hallucinogen? Isn’t that a value judgment? What support do they have for the proposition that I hallucinated what I experienced. “It was a hallucination.” What’s the evidence for that?
It goes again, back to consciousness. You can’t prove consciousness exists so how do I say that “Consciousness is a hallucination? You’re not really conscious”
“You can’t prove that I have consciousness. Therefore you don’t have consciousness. Therefore anybody who believes that they have consciousness is hallucinating.”
When you read the so-called science of atheism, you’ll realize that it’s a scam.
You got to read this stuff like a philosopher or even like a shrewd lawyer. Look at the words chosen. Why is it hallucination? Why? Shouldn’t they have to prove that? How can they define it as hallucination?
It’s just like Testosterone Replacement Therapy or anabolic steroids or other things: read the science and try to separate it from the value judgment that they make and the moral judgments that they make and the question-begging that they do.
We use “begging the question” wrongly. Begging the question today means, if you say a point “Well that begs the question” Well then you should ask the question. Begging the question means that they assume a premise without proving it.
Calling DMT a hallucinogen is question begging. Prove to me that it’s a hallucinogen. Prove to me that what I experienced was my imagination and that it wasn’t real. Prove to me that I didn’t get in touch with a different part of the universe that exists.
Some people consider the pineal gland to be that third eye. And people go, “Third eye. Weird. Woo woo.” OK, let’s link it back to our studies of Carl Jung right? Every society has believed in this third eye. We have the third eye on the dollar bill. The illuminati sign is the third eye. You can go back to any culture that has ever existed and there has been a belief in the third eye and a spiritual realm.
You can take DMT and it passes the blood-brain barrier.
Well…everybody’s believed in this. DMT actually passes the blood-brain barrier. The pineal gland actually exists. People who take DMT or 5-MeO-DMT experience essentially the same thing that I experienced and that’s a hallucination?
Think about that logically. Think about it critically and carefully.
Is it really a hallucination? Or is it that our third eye exists and we’re not keyed in on how to use it? Is the third eye an additional sense perception that we have? That for whatever reason in the modern world that we don’t know how to use? If it is a different sense perception, does it make sense to say that anybody who believes in a god or a religion is irrational or ignoring evidence?
Or could it be that people have access to evidence that you don’t have access to? Could it be that my experience has given me insight that the atheists and other people don’t have?
Those are all questions to ask.
Those are hard questions.
Those are questions that should keep people up at night.
And that’s why, even when I didn’t believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior or the prophet Muhammad or any organized religion, when I would read about consciousness or quantum physics I would not be able to sleep at night because these are vexing questions that require a lot of brain power. And they are questions that if anybody is honest about, we don’t know the answer to.
So yes I believe in a divine. I don’t understand it. My limitations as a person, whether that means my brain isn’t powerful enough, whether that means my pineal gland is still being activated more…I don’t know.
Now, getting more back to the third eye, I’ve learned how to use my third eye with MDMA. Which people call “molly.” The really good stuff floating around out there they call it “Moon rock molly.” It used to be called ecstasy but a lot of the time that stuff [modern ecstasy] is stacked with speed. And I experienced it at an Above & Beyond concert of all places so when I take MDMA (which I don’t do often, and again, if you’re in college please don’t do this stuff), I didn’t mess with this stuff until I was 34, maybe 35. That might have been too late maybe I could have started when I was like 28.
(Put your headphones on and press play.)
But please, if you’re in college, don’t do drugs.
I learned how to use MDMA with my third eye.
So I go to this Above & Beyond concert. It’s a certain trance type style of music that I believe puts you more in touch with the spirit world. And I can close my eyes and the light show is reflecting and it’s hitting something inside my brain.
What is it hitting?
I don’t know but I believe it’s the pineal gland. Because I can close my eyes and see light. And it’s not the light fractions of the photons penetrating my eyelids or anything. I understand all of that, guys. You’re not going to tell me anything about sense perception that I haven’t read about. If all you do is you read Reddit and you want to talk atheism, sorry but you’re just not in my league. I’ve read all this stuff.
For example, a lot of people don’t know that you don’t actually experience reality in real time. Light has to go in through the cones of your eyes and then your consciousness has to filter all that stuff and create and reconstruct what you’re actually seeing. And it does that really quickly but we’re not actually experiencing reality in real time.
So if your understanding of this stuff comes from Reddit, I don’t care, that’s just so low consciousness it’s minor league. It’s not even minor league shit, it’s junior varsity type stuff. If you have deep insights because you’ve actually studied and thought about this stuff, I would actually love to hear about it.
But I very rarely hear, even from Richard Dawkins and those guys, see anything that shows that they have a deep understanding of this stuff. It’s kind of embarrassing actually. Michael Shermer, I used to be a member of the Skeptic Society and I would go to these events and these people they don’t understand this stuff.
We don’t even experience reality in real time. We’re always a fraction of a second behind reality. So what does it even mean to say we perceive reality?
That digression aside, so I’m there I’m absorbing the light; I’m absorbing the rays of the music. What I’m doing is that I’m linking that so that I can go back and experience those types of feelings when I’m not on MDMA. That’s why I don’t do MDMA very often. I don’t need to.
I use it as a certain medication and as a very powerful medicine. And I don’t go out and try to bang girls and experience pleasures of the flesh I use it to enhance my spirit.
So I’m absorbing all this light, the light’s coming in, and my third eye is highly activated. My perception is changing, but I’m not hallucinating. I say to my friends, who I was with at the time, “Hey I’m going to go to the bathroom.” We were all kind of standing in place. I walk to the bathroom, I’m not stumbling. I’m not seeing trails or anything like I’m on LSD. I know where I am. I walk into the bathroom and go pee. And as I’m pissing, my urine is not a steady stream.
It’s droplets. But it’s not droplets because it’s dribbling out. I’m urinating at full speed ahead. Every man knows what it’s like when you haven’t gone to the bathroom in 2 hours and you’re pissing and you can feel it coming out. So this isn’t a case of droplets. But because my perception had been altered, I was able to see it differently. Droplets.
And again I’m not hallucinating. There are no monsters coming out of the urinal or anything like that. But I was able to almost see water come out like a high-speed camera would see it. And people might say, “Well that’s hallucination.”
Well it’s not hallucination. If you look at a high-speed camera is that a hallucination? No, the camera sees things at a faster rate than our eyeballs process things. That’s all it is; our eyeballs and our perception of the light that comes in experiences things at a different rate of speed than high-speed cameras. Hence why we call them high-speed cameras.
So I’m seeing the urination come out in droplets and what is that right? Well it’s not a hallucination because I know where I am. I know what I’m seeing. It’s because I was activating my pineal gland that I was able to perceive reality at a different wavelength. At a different level.
So what does this all mean guys?
It means that I don’t know. I’m not an atheist but I also don’t tell you, “This is my religion and if you don’t follow this religion you are going to burn in hell.” Or “Allah’s going to punish you,” or whatever the various religions teach because I don’t have any understanding of any of this stuff and I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about it.
I’ve read all of the best thinkers. I’ve read all of their thoughts. Like I said, I’ve been a member of the Skeptic Society. I’ve read Daniel Dennet’s stuff, Richard Dawkins’s stuff, and Michael Shermer’s stuff. I’ve read all those guys.
And I don’t understand DMT or 5-MeO-DMT.
So if I don’t even understand what I’ve experienced, how could I ever be an atheist?
If you are an atheist, here would be my challenge to you:
Go find some DMT. Go find some 5-MeO-DMT. Buy the ticket and take the ride.
That’s what Danger & Play is all about.
That’s why I don’t try to make broad sweeping generalizations.
I say, “This is what I’ve done. There’s some support for it. Here’s some science behind it. This is why it kind of works. This is why it might not work.”
But ultimately, your journey is your journey. And once you start messing around with this stuff and you start learning about the ego and the ego death and that your conception of Self may or may not be illusory; or that if you affect the pineal gland you concept of Self completely vanishes then you’re going to start to understand that it may not be rational to be an atheist. In fact it might be irrational to be an atheist.
So there you go.
“Buy the ticket, take the ride.”
If you have any questions post them.
If you have good points to make, post them.
Again, I don’t want to see any bullshit that you copy and pasted off of Reddit.
I love these types of discussions; I embrace them.
Tell me I’m full of shit, I don’t care. I’d love to see your evidence.
I’d love to talk deeply about these issues.
But again, no neck-beards, no Reddit atheist bullshit. Nothing that you’ve read on some stupid message board because I’ve been there done that.
I want to hear some real deep insights.
Tell me why I hallucinated. Tell me why DMT is a hallucinogen and why it doesn’t actually allow us to perceive things that are real, but that we can’t normally perceive.
Tell me why bacteria don’t exist. Oh wait, bacteria do exist. Doctors said don’t wash your hands until relatively recently because they couldn’t perceive the bacteria but we know that bacteria exist.
Why do you think that what you can perceive is the limit of what everyone else can perceive?
Isn’t that a bit egotistical?
Again, thanks for tuning in. This is Mike from DangerAndPlay.com.