Testosterone cypionate is not optimal for a man going on testosterone replacement therapy – although often that’s a man’s only option. In this podcast, we discuss how many milligrams of testosterone to take when on TRT, whether to take testosterone cypionate and whether men need anti-estrogens – also known as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) and aromatase inhibitors (AIs).
Still, the questions keep coming in. It’s time to answer the questions once and for all.
This is the definitive guide to TRT. This is Advanced TRT. You can download the podcast here or click play below.
Our TRT Podcast covers:
- Is testosterone cypionate or propionate better?
- How many milligrams of testosterone should I take when on TRT?
- What syringes and size/gauge of needles to use when on TRT.
- Whether anti-estrogens are needed when on TRT.
We have also made a transcript available.
Danger & Play
This is not medical advice. Always consult a physician before undergoing TRT.
And we are back. This is Mike from Danger & Play.
Jay is in the house and we are going to talk a little bit more about Testosterone Replacement Therapy [TRT] and you want to listen to today.
We get a lot of questions and a lot of them have certain commonalities so we’re going to break this up into two parts:
Part 1: What’s the best way to take TRT?
Part 2: What is the best way that you can do it in the confines of a conventional doctor?
So for “What is the best way to do TRT?” don’t ask me where to get gear. This is where we’re talking about the best way to do TRT. Jay can chime in with his thoughts.
You take Testosterone Propionate, 50 milligrams [mg], every other day. That means one week you are going to end up with 150 mg of Test, the next week you are going to get 200 mg of test. This is going to keep you at just at over the highest levels that you could achieve naturally.
You are going to backfill a 28 gauge insulin syringe. If you don’t know what it means to backfill a syringe go on YouTube and look at it or get it from your TRT clinic which is what I do. I get my insulin syringes backfilled, 28 gauge. You can shoot those into your delts, into your thighs, and you rotate your injection sites.
Now if a lot of you are saying, “I don’t know what any of this means,” that’s fine. This is the best way to do it. Figure out how to do it yourself.
Do you need to take Anti-estrogens, SERMs, Aromatase inhibitors, or anything else? Unless your blood work is saying there is high estrogen.
Again, this is NOT medical advice.
But unless blood work, which you should be getting done regularly, says you have high estradiol levels, there is absolutely no reason to take an anti-estrogen.
To sum it up:
- Test Prop, every other day, approximately 50 mg
- No need for an anti-estrogen, SERM or AI unless your blood work show high estradiol
- Get your blood work measured, check your red blood cell count
- If you have high red blood cell count, give blood
It really is that simple. Now, are you going to get this from a doctor? Good luck, you are going to have to find an anti-aging clinic or as a last resort, you may have to self-administer.
Yeah, what Mike just said, him and I summarizing this, I like to liken it back to the board on his site and some of the questions that are coming in. Unfortunately like Mike said, and again, I’m not a doctor and I just play one on D&P for now.
NONE of my advice is to be taken by anybody that is or isn’t in the legal profession that wants to come after me because both Mike and I have script and we do this through legal channels but the reality is, the average endocrinologist is a quack. OK? And I mean that. Quack quack quack.
They literally have no concept of what they are doing. They are shot gunning; giving different protocols to different guys based on different life circumstances. It doesn’t apply, it doesn’t add up, and it’s nonsense. I see some of these guys on the board who say they are getting 66 mg of Test Cypionate once every 14 days. Are you serious?
Those guys are shut down. That’s why they are complaining that they have low energy, low libido, and all those things because they literally have no testosterone production.
So anyway, back to what Mike recommended, I agree wholeheartedly.
The other thing I want to add, again based on your blood work, everything is based on a baseline. It should be 15 mg to 50 mg every other day of Prop. Of course, it’s always Prop. And just one thing to ad, if you are preparing for a bodybuilding show, a competition, or a photo shoot, or your just want to look awesome for a vacation you’re taking or something like that, it’s ok to go to once a day dosage. When you’re backfilling or getting backfilled syringes at 28 gauge they are small enough needles. They are not going to affect you. You can take one shot a day. There’s no needle phobia and it’s very simple.
The only other thing I would add is, a lot of you guys are calling up, or leaving emails, and sending questions to Mike and I about injury prevention and restoration…
There are 2 drugs, that’s it. These are the only 2 drugs:
1) There’s Equipoise, otherwise known as EQ and then
We both recommend EQ over Deca-Durabolin because Deca-Durabolin has this horrible propensity to shut guys down to really slow and destroy the HPTA which will basically make you feel like you’re a limp dick motherfucker and can’t get it up. Avoid that drug. Some guys are OK with it, it’s a great drug for building mass and also for helping injury restoration.
The reason both of those drugs are awesome for injury restoration or prevention is because they rebuild collagen. Collagen is the #1 component of your ligaments and tendons. So those are the 2 drugs to add, but other than that I really don’t have anything to say. Just again, baselines. Get your blood measured, do it every 3 months and then once you become a pro you can do it 2 times a year, but make sure you have a baseline.
And some guys are going to ask about HGH that comes up in the context of TRT. HGH is technically not TRT it would be considered more HRT but if you can get real growth hormone, if it’s pharmaceutical grade, 1-2 IUs every day, 5 days a week. Or you can take 2-3 IUs every other day.
I would say for Growth, make sure you are 35 and up. If you’re under 35 you have such high natural production, get tested, but normally you have such high natural production that 1 – 2 IUs isn’t going to do anything for you if you are under 35.
Yeah and the growth is going to help with sleep, collagen regeneration, and also potentiates the testosterone, so the synergistic effect between Test and Growth.
What would I do if I had a magic wand?
Prop, 50 50 50. That means every other day, 50 mg. A couple IUs of Growth and really man it’s that simple. Now people can argue. Doctors can argue. I don’t give a crap man. Tell them to look at the half-lives of various Testosterone esters. I’m not a doctor but I can go read an endocrinology textbook and I can go look at the half-life of chemicals right?
Any of you could do it. So if your doctor does agree with you, just say “OK Doc, show me an endocrinology textbook where what is advised is wrong.” If the doctor says you need Amiridex, say “Why? What’s my Estriol levels?”
“Oh you don’t know? You don’t know? You haven’t looked at my blood work? Well then how can you tell me that I need a drug if you don’t know what my blood work is?”
This isn’t an opinion, this isn’t Mike or Jay on the Reddit boards and we’re 25 and we have opinions. This is facts. And if they deny it, crack open an endocrinology textbook and tell them to refute you.
I’ve been using a doctor for almost 14 years. I probably started a bit too young. I think I told you guys that I started using a doctor when I was 29, probably a little too young, but I was obviously very informed and I knew what I was doing when I started.
This isn’t guess work for me and Mike, this is based on basically, empirical fact and science. Years [worth]. For me, for than a decade and Mike getting close to it. Of using this under the guidance of a real physician not a quack.
Again, back to the GH, if you are under 35 thinking about GH and not a pro-bodybuilder, it’s a waste of time. Because realistically all you are going to do is get side effects. You’re body produces enough on its own. Again assuming you’re getting blood work done, getting your IGF levels measured don’t waste your time with GH.
I did want to add, that, if you are going to use, if you have an injury a soft tissue injury and you are struggling to heal…
The #1 thing is to up your carb intake. Clean carbs. A lot of you guys that are doing paleo and low-carb trying to heal injuries, you are wasting your time. You are not going to heal any injuries without carbohydrates. Remember what Mike and I have told you on numerous podcasts that carbs are more important that protein or fats. I know that people think that that’s crazy but it’s the truth.
And then #2 if you are going to go down the route to restore, you have an injury, and you’re going to use EQ or Deca, I would use EQ anywhere from 150 mg to 200 mg a week. Well I would say actually every 4th day so probably about 300 to 400 mg a week and ONLY until the injury is healed. EQ will make you hungry. It will increase your appetite. Now for you hard gainers out there don’t go “Oh I need to take EQ because it will make me eat more.” IT’s just something to be aware of. Now Deca-durabolin is very similar to EQ in its effects but it is very progestogenic and inhibitory. In my experience and many other guys it will shut you down. You will not be able to screw on it.
So that is the A side. You live in a perfect world.
The B side is, you don’t live in a perfect world and you go to a doctor who wants to give you 50 mg of Test every week or one injection of a 100 mg every two weeks. I would say that if you can’t get proper TRT then no TRT is better than wrong TRT.
100% agreement. Again, reading the boards, reading the messages, reading some of this abject quackery that I see…again, Mike and I are not doctors. We don’t want somebody calling us and saying “Hey what the heck,” but it’s quackery man. You gotta realize that your body does have a natural production and a natural supply. When you start experimenting with exogenous amounts if you are not using enough to overcome your body’s natural production…ahh, HELLO! There’s going to be a negative feedback and you are screwed. You are not going to be able to function as a man.
Yeah, and what you learn too is that when you take a shot of testosterone, estrogen rises with it and when you remove than Test, the estrogen doesn’t fall as fast as the Test does. So a lot of you guys are on Arimidex because you are getting improper medical care. You are getting a shot of Test, your T and E go up, and your E would be fine if your T were still at that level. But what happens is that you drop your T, your T goes to 0 and your E doesn’t go to 0.
Then you are bloated, moody, and puffy. Then your doctor says “Oh you need Arimidex.”
Again, this is not our opinion. This is not our expert judgment. This is called “get an endocrinology textbook.”
Tell your doctor “What is the half-life of Test Cypionate?” Which is what he’s going to give you. If he doesn’t know, he’s a quack, and he doesn’t understand the science behind this.
Right. We see this all the times with a lot of you guys in your questions. If a doctor is prescribing you a dosage of only 150 mg or less every two weeks with one shot. You need to fire your doctor. As Mike says, as peak half-life and peak efficacy in the blood and all these other things, parental administration, you’re body with a long-acting ester like Test Cypionate is going to have ups and downs. And dudes, the last thing you guys want using Testosterone is to have peaks and valleys.
You want to be on a nice smooth little tiny bump upward all 7 days. Yes, there are going to be days off, but that’s why we recommend Test Propionate because it mimic’s the body’s production most effectively of all the other Tests. Actually there is one ester-less Test but you can’t get it. That’s a story for another day. But you want to have something that keeps your blood levels stable.
When you are taking a shot every 2 weeks, for Christ’s sake, you are going to have days when you’re depressed. You are going to have feelings of total sullen moodiness. You’re going to be like a bitch. You’re going to complain. And that’s not your fault man, it’s because your doctor doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Exactly. So if the doctor wants you on Cypionate, you’re going to want to get 100-150mg a week, I would advise, again this is not medical advice, even if he tells you to take one shot a week, that’s going to lead to peaks and valleys. I personally would take 2 shots a week.
I’ve seen a lot of bad stuff about syringes. I mean come on guys they are giving you 1 inch 22 gauge needles. Here’s what you want, tell your doctor “I want a five-eighths inch [5/8”], 25 gauge needle.” And then you can shoot that right into your delt. You’re not going to get much scar tissue built up because one thing you’re going to learn is that if you put those harpoons, those 22 gauges in and you think “Oh I’m a badass I can take the pain.” You are tearing up muscle fascia and you are going to create scar tissue.
And let me tell you guys something right now: needle phobia…that’s what generates needle phobia. You put an 18-22 gauge needle in your arm at one inch or even one and half inches like some guys will do and you hit a nerve and you activate your Golgi reflex tendon mechanism you’re head will hit the ceiling of a 10 foot ceiling.
You think I’m bullshitting you? Trust me, it’ll happen. It’s happened to me before. Don’t make that mistake. Use a 5/16 inch needle, it’s very simple. A 26 to 25 gauge is perfect to shoot an ester through. As Mike said, optimally you want to have a 28 gauge insulin needle. All the good anti-aging clinics and endocrinologists provide that now to their patients and it’s simple. It’s 10 seconds, 20 seconds in your day and you’re done. But again, you have to understand this stuff; you cannot just be shot gunning stupid nonsense into your body using giant harpoons when you don’t know what you’re doing.
That’s why you’re listening to Danger & Play with guys like me and Mike because we are giving it you the way you need to hear it.
See isn’t that really simple? All these questions come up, all this confusion, and this is probably going to be 15 minutes and we probably could have done it in 8 minutes.
Really simple. There’s the best way and then there is the way that most doctors are going to do it.
Now, I have been in touch with various TRT clinics with not much success yet, it’s a little far down the to-do list because I have other things going on. But what I am trying to do is find a TRT clinic that gets it. And, if and when we do find that clinic, we will actually be able to give you a referral.
A lot of guys ask me for referrals and all I can tell them is go where I go which is the Beverly Hills Anti-Aging Clinic. If you can’t make it out there because it’s too expensive or whatever, go to Vegas and see Dr. Jeffry Life’s clinic. Those can be a little pricey and I understand that, but it is your health.
So we’re working on it, I can’t guarantee anything, but until then if you have to go through your regular doctor or you are worried about having to get it through insurance: you’re going to get Test Cyp, you’re going to want to get 100-150 mg a week, you’ll want to take 2 shots a week, hey if you can do 3, do it but 2 shots is plenty. Get 5/8 inch long needles that are 25 gauge or 28 gauge if they can backfill it for you.
You should demand that they do backfill it for you, because they will.
Then, it if doesn’t quite come out of the needle quick enough, run it under scalding hot water for about 20 minutes.
Or just take off the metal needle, the hypodermic and put it in the microwave on HIGH.
Yeah, once that oil gets warm, you run it under hot water or microwave it. You don’t run the needle under hot water obviously, you run the plastic part on it and that’s that. It really is that simple. Anti-estrogens are a whole bunch that they can talk about. Some people want HCG for ball volume. I don’t think any of that is necessary. I think that is there are estrogen problems; it’s largely due to defective medical practice.
Again, guys want to know about their blood cells. Make sure when you get your blood work done, this is something that your doctor might not know because a lot of them don’t know, if you have a high red blood cell count, you better get your ass to the Red Cross and give blood.
Because that can lead to some problems but I personally have never had that as an issue, some gives have.
If you have good cardiovascular health when on TRT, your blood volume is naturally going to turn over a lot through basic oxidative aerobic capacity so you’re not really going to have that issue. Although some guys, as Mike said, are genetically pre-disposed to having a high red blood cell count. Again, if you are in good cardiovascular shape, you do your cardio; you put in 4 or 5 days a week whether it’s walking, riding a bike or whatever, and low intensity of course.
For all you guys talking about running on these sites, oh my god, please stop. That’s a whole ‘nother podcast for another day. But, Mike’s right, the only thing I would add is, make sure you guys ask us questions. But obviously we are giving out information that is so cutting edge and so modern that there is nobody out there offering what we are offering.
Literally, this podcast should have so many people listen to it, you guys should recommend this to your friends. Anybody who cares about being a real man, having more energy, and a better libido, a better outlook and a better mood in their life should be listening to this podcast because this information is not out there.
I’m not bullshitting you when I say that, but you should listen to this podcast and again, and as Mike says, our goal is to pay it forward. You ask us questions, you come out on the blog and you state what needs to be stated and we will do our best to answer your questions. Mike and I are not the gurus by any stretch of the imagination, but we do know our stuff and we will do our best to answer your questions.
Yeah. And again, I don’t sell TRT man, I don’t sell testosterone, legally or illegally, I don’t have anything to do with it. This is just information that true. And again, don’t take my word for it. Anybody who wants to doubt me, get out the endocrinology textbook and prove me wrong. But it can’t be done, because this is the way to do it.
So there you go bro, this should answer all the TRT questions once and for all. You should not have any more questions because this is the best way to do it. So thank you for your attention, I hope that you can find proper medical treatment, then you have to do whatever it takes to get the medical care that you need. If that means that you have to self-administer, although I would never encourage anyone to violate any laws, then that is what you have to do.
Jay: Yeah, the only thing I would add is, continue to ask question to me and Mike now that Mike has outted me and my blog. You guys know what that is, I’m available there to, feel free to ask questions, we look forward to helping you.
Onward and upward
Alright guys, until next time, this is Mike from Danger & Play, out.