Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT)

What is testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? What are the symptoms of low testosterone? Do I have “low t”? How do I find a doctor to put me on testosterone replacement therapy? What are the downsides or side effects of TRT? Is TRT dangerous? How do I know if I have low testosterone?

We answer all of this questions and more. Also, check out:

[This is not medical advice. Always seek the advice and assistance of a qualified healthcare provider.]

Quick summary for the attention-deprived: A proper TRT dose should be approximately 125 mg of testosterone injected weekly, although 100 mg every 5 days is ideal. Blood levels on a proper TRT dose should put the patient on the high side of the normal range of natural testosterone levels. People have used TRT doses as high as 200 mg a week (supra-physiological levels) for several decades without experiencing any negative side effects. Your hair won’t fall out unless you’re genetically predisposed to hair loss. Yes, your body will stop producing its own testosterone. That’s why you shouldn’t use testosterone replacement therapy unless your natural levels are low and need replaced – get it?

Testosterone TRT

Although we supposedly live in an era where God is dead and science lives, most remain ignorant about the single most important hormone in the body. If Aristotle were around, he would call this hormone the sine qua non of masculinity. Without this drug, you are not a man. Indeed, women who want to “become” men inject this drug.

We are talking, of course, about testosterone.

Let’s get one thing out of the way. Testosterone boosters do not work. If testosterone boosters worked then the very people peddling them would not be on TRT. Test boosters are a scam that many (including myself) have fallen for. Consider it a rite of passage.

TRT is for big boys who can make big boy decisions – not for little kids looking to take a pill that will have magical effects.

Although I have been preaching the benefits of testosterone for almost 20 years, only recently has this hormone penetrated popular consciousness. You now see commercials warning men of low T.

There is one problem. One huge problem.

Chances are that you doctor does not know anything about testosterone. If you have any interest in getting on TRT, you have to educate yourself to avoid these common mistakes:

  1. Inadequate doses of testosterone are prescribed – usually 100 mg every two weeks.
  2. Injections are spaced too far apart. Idiot doctors often tell patients to inject every 2 weeks. This shows a gross incompetence and ignorance of a basic principle of pharmacology – namely half-life and peak blood levels.
  3. Large needles are given to patents. These needles create massive amounts of scar tissue in the muscle fibers.

What does “testosterone level” even mean?

Testosterone level refers to a scientific measurement. After blood is drawn from your arm, your blood is sent to a lab where it’s spun around in a machine until the testosterone floating around is measurable.

Check out Blood Work and TRT to learn how to get your testosterone level measured.

Although the scales vary, testosterone levels are generally in a range of around 225 to 1100 – that’s nano grams of testosterone per  deciliters of blood. The scale varies and as you see the range is wide.

(Aside: A lot of people try needing out and talk about the difference between free and total testosterone. Total testosterone is all of the testosterone in your body and free testosterone is the test available for your body to use. But. I’ve yet to learn of a person who had low total testosterone and also had high free testosterone, or a man or has had high total testosterone but low free testosterone.)

Now think about that scale for a minute and see if you can identify two fundamental problems.

What’s the problem with the scale used to evaluate low testosterone levels in men?

One, the scale isn’t age adjusted. Hence you could be 30 years old with testosterone levels of 300. That’s normal – for a 70 year old man. But isn’t a 30 year old with the levels of a 70 year old man running on empty?

Two, the scale is based on percentiles. Let’s say 225 ng/dl is the bottom 10th percentile and 1100 mg/dl is the top 10th percentile. At the 11th percentile, you’re normal. But that’s still significantly lower than what is nevertheless physiologically normal and attainable in 89% of other men. So aren’t you low even if you’re within range? Who wants to be a bottom of the barrel man?

Many doctors will refuse to prescribe their patients testosterone if they fall within range, i.e., if you’re 25 and have the test levels of an octogenarian, you’re perfectly healthy! Really!

How do I find out if I have low testosterone?

Get blood work done. Ask your doctor to get your labs done. You can also get labs done yourself. See, Blood Work and TRT.

Go to Private MD Labs by clicking here. Order the female hormone profile, which is cheaper than the male hormone profile. Use healthy12 (which sometimes works as a coupon code).

Your total cost should be $52 or so. Your lab work will give you your free and total testosterone levels, your estrogen levels, and some other stuff that I’m not going to get into.

Who is on TRT?

Vitor Belfort, Randy Couture, Joe Rogan, Dan Henderson, Frank Mir, and Chael Sonnen are admitted TRT users. Even the guy who sells Bulletproof Coffee and other overpriced nonsense  is on TRT. (Typical supplement salesperson: He sells one thing but gets his results from something altogether different.)

Pretty much every Hollywood actor and in fact any man who makes his living using his body is on TRT, although they can’t admit it because Midwestern sheep would be appalled to learn that people who get paid millions of dollars based on how they look and perform actually use drugs to improve their looks and performance.

Basically, everyone over 35 or 40 who is not a chump is on TRT. (Obviously everyone is overstating things. But past a certain age a man needs to keep an eye on his test levels. They do start declining and eventually tip you into “low T” territory.)

(One man shares his experience after being on TRT for 18 months.)

How do I get on TRT?

See a doctor who knows what he is doing. This eliminates 90% of physicians.

Even endocrinologists are pretty silly. A good friend of mine kept getting tested for brain tumors and shit. I laughed, told him he needed test, and his endo took weeks to get him on the right stuff.

If you’re going to go the prescription route (your only option if you live in the United States), go to an anti-aging clinic.

Doctors at anti-aging clinics actually know what they are doing. The downside is that anti-aging clinics charge a yearly fee that is formidable for some (usually around $500 or so a year).

You pay the fee, get a consultation and lab work done, and then get proper testosterone treatment.

If you have cash, just avoid the hassle of dealing with doctors. Go to an anti-aging clinic and pay out of pocket.

If you’re short on cash, go nag your doctor. Or if you live in a civilized country where testosterone is sold over the count, be your own doctor. ;)

Is TRT life changing?

Yes, just like the world is measured in BCE or BC, your life will be measured in Pre-TRT and Post-TRT. If you have already or ultimately get on TRT because of my writings, you should send me a major token of gratitude. I’m not even joking.

How much does it cost?

Costco is selling 10 ml vials of testosterone cypionate for around $75.

A vial of test cyp is going to have 200 mg of testosterone per ml/cc of product. At normal TRT doses, that’s 20 injections. (It’ll actually be closer to 18 or 19, as you lose a little bit of test that gets stuck in the syringe after each injection.)

A doctor’s visit is usually covered by insurance. Anti-aging clinics charge a membership fee ($400 or so per year).

Needles and other supplies are dirt cheap.

All in, TRT is going to cost $50-100 or so a month. It’ll cost more if you go to an anti-aging clinic and pay out of pocket. It will cost less if you go to a doctor and are covered by insurance.

What’s the best way to administer TRT? How much testosterone, how often, and what needles?

We cover this question in depth in this podcast (that is also transcribed for ease of reading): How to Go on Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

Blood levels of testosterone spike after a day or so and level off until declining after 7 days. To prevent highs-and-lows, it’s best to take an injection every 5-7 days. Many doctors will tell you otherwise.

When your doctor says something stupid, push back. Say, “When are peak levels of testosterone obtained? When do those values decline? My research suggests that after 7 days, testosterone levels fall off of a cliff. What does your research show.”

Smaller needles lead to less scar tissue buildup. A 25 gauge (refers to needle thickness; a larger gauge is a thinner needle and a smaller gauge is a thicker needle) needle works just fine. If injecting into the delt, a 5/8″ needle is long enough. If going into the glute, a longer needle is required. But not a thicker needle.

Will my balls shrink?

Testicular volume will generally decrease by around 25%. There are substances you can take to prevent this (HCG), but in truth you will find that the “ball shrink question” is a young man’s stupid question.

Past a certain point, gravity is going to take its toll on your scrotum. Those big balls that I was once so proud of started hanging down in an unaesthetic manner. They started getting in the way of riding a spin bike and they just flopped around during sex.

Smaller balls are more manageable.

Will I go bald?

From a TRT dose, you shouldn’t lose more hair than you’re already losing. (Even if you have a magnificent mane, you’re going to lose 50-100 hairs a day.)

 Is TRT cheating?

Whose rules are you following? If you want to be a slave, follow society’s rules. Go home and drink some brewskis and watch the game while father time takes a dump all over your head.

Is TRT steroids?

No, the difference between TRT and anabolic steroids, to borrow from Mark Twain, is the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.

To learn about anabolic steroids, check out:

Even if I say yes, why care? Are you one of those people who gets wrapped up with labels. “Oh, I can’t do steroids. The media says that’s immoral and dangerous.” If so, kindly find another site to read; this isn’t the place for you.

Isn’t TRT just fake masculinity?

That question doesn’t make much sense. Are diabetics who inject insulin taking fake glucose disposal agents? If it works, there’s nothing fake about it.

Can’t I just raise my testosterone levels naturally?

Sure. Take that Vitamin D and eat those almonds and pop zinc tablets and do those heavy squats. Maybe it will work. Good luck.

Won’t I have to be on TRT for life?

Yes and no. Yes, that’s why you shouldn’t go on TRT unless you need to. A blood test costs $52. Don’t cheap out on your health.

No, you can go off of test, run some HCG and HMG, and  your body’s crappy natural levels of testosterone will return to the low levels that they were.

Does TRT make me sterile?

Many men have made the mistake of believing the hype. Those men are called fathers.

Even in the rare occasion with exogenous testosterone makes you sterile, there’s a simple solution. Go off, take some HCG or HMG, and have babies.

Final questions?

I’ll be happy to answer theoretical questions. However, remember these important points:

  • This is not medical advice. Seek out a qualified healthcare practitioner to get medical advice.
  • Specific questions about your situation will not be answered by me. Answering such questions would be illegal and unethical.

Take care. And remember, if you went on TRT because of me, email me and I’ll tell you where to send the check.

Learn more: Blood Work and TRT: What is my Testosterone Level?

Click play to learn more about how to increase your testosterone level.)

  • Asf

    How long after you get on TRt according to your suggested regimen will you start to notice a difference?

    • Danger & Play

      One to three weeks.

  • JQ Public

    Good post. I am on the lower side of normal T levels. CAn’t remember the exact number now. I live in USA. Do you know if I can mail order the stuff from oversees?

    • Danger & Play

      The only way to legally obtain testosterone in the U.S. is through a doctor’s prescription.

  • BA

    Been on TRT and HCG for about 18 months. I inject sub-Q in my abdomen twice a week. I first went to an anti-aging clinic then found a family practice doc that understands. It has made a tremendous improvement in my over all well-being. If you’re 30 or over, follow D&P’s advice and get tested.

    • Danger & Play

      How do you like the sub-Q injects? Are you using insulin syringes that you back fill?

      • BA

        Sub-Q works great for me. Pull together some skin over my belly and inject. The anti-aging clinic showed me that way and I didn’t find out about intramuscular until later, so that what I stayed with. My current doc says the sub-Q twice a week is better because my T levels stay more consistent. I use a 25 ga needle to inject 1/2cc, was uncomfortable at first but I get more pain in the weight room.

        I use an insulin syringe for the HCG. The T is too thick for that small a needle while the HCG is like water.

        • Danger & Play

          Cool, thanks. Quite a few guys do daily injects to test prop to keep levels totally stable. Works for them but seems like overkill.

          If you get tired of using a 25 gauge needle: It’s possible to use an insulin syringe by applying the Ulter Slin Pin Method. Here’s a YouTube video demonstrating it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNCMN-RYtc

  • http://www.gll-getalife.com Good Looking Loser

    Good writeup – and good job anticipating the ignorant questions, “isn’t this cheating” “if steroids is bad and trt is steroids is trt bad”.

    For 7 years I’m used a doctor prescribed 200-250mg every 9-10 days as well as 250ius of HCG every 2 to 4 days. I’m generally at about 1000ng/dl. and all my other blood work is fine if not optimal.

    • Danger & Play

      Thanks man.

      • T and A man

        I’ll respond here.

        I was previously under the impression that dosage was best served at say 200-250mL every 12 days, the half life, for a smootch cycle.

        It looks like your adice is half the dose at twice the frequency. Have i summised that correctly? If so, is it a personal experience, or a common observation amongst many TRT exponents.

        Secondly, if one ever wants to go back the their own natural production, can they be on TRT for a lengthy amount of time, says 4-5 years, or do they need to keep cycling every 14-18 weeks to reignite their own production?

  • Been There, DONE THAT

    I will not denigrate those who need TRT. But I will WARN those who think they need it. I tried it for awhile. It helped, but it was expensive. And yes, my balls did shrink. That stopped me from doing it. The reason your balls shrink is because your body is telling your balls that there is enough testosterone in your body already (due to the TRT) so your balls quit producing testosterone. Or at least slow down. You become PERMANENTLY hooked on TRT, as your body shuts down production. So I researched the net and found how to force my body to increase production of testosterone. And it worked. It is not hard to find on the net. Heavy exercise. Wind sprints. Diet. Zinc, etc. Anybody who says that you cannot raise your own testosterone is an idiot, or a liar. Or too lazy to do it the right way. I’m not trying to shit stir. Sure, some might not be able to raise it naturally. But you have to try. The detriment is you have lost nothing. The benefit is you do not get hooked on TRT PERMANENTLY.

    • Danger & Play

      Damn bro, did you even read my post?

      1. It’s not expensive. Even in college I could afford $50 to $100 a mouth.

      2. You don’t have to stay on permanently. There’s triptorelin, HMG, and HCG that will kick start the body’s natural production.

      I am all for dissent, but it sounds like you didn’t even read the post before throwing around the ALL CAPS and talking about “liars” and “idiots” and being “lazy.”

    • asf

      What were your:

      a) pre-TRT test levels
      b) post-TRT test levels
      c) after stopping TRT, what were your test levels after 1-3 months of your exercise regimen?

  • http://yousowould.wordpress.com YouSoWould

    Some relatively decent advice, with a few gaps (debunking gels & creams/the use aromatase inhibitors/self-administration to name a few), but delivered in your usual douchebag frat-boy jock manner.

    If you’re looking to help the majority of men, rather than just posturing about how wonderful you are for talking about TRT, you’d be better off presenting your information in a manner that the average person can relate to more easily.

    • Danger & Play

      I banned you from commenting. Now you’re back. Go stalk someone else, bro.

    • Aaron

      This article is as easy to read as it gets.

      Keep up the good shit D&P.

      Why haven’t you added an archive page for mobile? Come on man.

    • dan

      Are u just retarded then?

  • http://30daystox.com XDays

    Is testosterone cream any good?

    • Danger & Play

      The cream has many downsides.

      1. Since it has to absorb through the skin, it provides an uneven dose of testosterone. You know how your skin is drier some days and sucks in lotion where as other days lotion lingers? Same principle.

      2. It has to be applied daily.

      3. It takes hours to absorb. Until it absorbs:

      3a. You can’t touch a baby with the cream. There have been many reported cases of premature puberty occurring after children were held by fathers who had used testosterone gel. CHeck out “Central precocious puberty after interpersonal transfer of testosterone gel: just a coincidence?” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23155706 (“We report on a 5-year-old boy who developed central precocious puberty after long-term (starting prenatally) exposure to testosterone through interpersonal transfer of T gel used by his father.”)

      3b. You can’t touch your girlfriend because she absorbs the test and will start having side effects associated with androgen use (facial hair, deeper voice, even potentially grow an adam’s apple).

      There are probably other reasons, but those are more than enough to make the testosterone cream and gel bad mojo.

      • http://30daystox.com XDays

        Thanks for the heads up, also I shot you an email.

  • Frank

    Do you really think T boosters don’t work? Or is it just the case that they don’t work because in comparison to actual TRT they are not nearly as effective but just as costly?

    • Danger & Play

      It’s not about thinking, it’s about knowing. They don’t work. Here’s a question: Why are supplement company owners on TRT if the test boosters they sold effective?

      And of course it would be easy to prove that test boosters work. Just have people come in, take their t levels, give them pills, monitor for compliance, and then check their levels again after 3 and then 6 weeks. It wouldn’t be expensive to design a non-placebo controlled study.

      Easy, right?

      So why don’t we have a stack of blood work showing how effective these test boosters are? To ask the question is to answer it.

    • dan williams

      Jesus are you kidding me? No, boosters do not work at all. Ive never tried but thats because im not retarded enough to think they would be any different than any other bullshit scam you can find at your gnc. Dont go saying im mad or butthurt, I just cant believe how gullible some of you, all, most nerds, idiots, to believe in those supplements are. protein powder and thats about it, that works and does what its supposed to. Im 40 years old, been on trt for a year, been lifting for 25 years and i am now 210 lbs. and bench 365, i can bench 225 26 times. I had really low (195) test levels. Im taking 200ml twice a week. thats the best way for me. Ya gotta space it out, half life of this trt is too short. Im horny as hell all the time now :) Ive never been able to bench 315 in my life, so, it works. I can deadlift and squat a shit ton too. Anyway, to all the non believers of trt, get checked, raise your levels, increase your sex drive, bone density, mental health and awarness and sorry for all the guys out there that’ll never get anywhere because they just are too dang clueless.

      • AKA

        I agree. One thing tho. Lots of people have vitamin D deficiency. Vit D has everything to do with energy levels and focus. Take 5000-6000 IU Vitamin D daily to see if your situation improves if you are worried about doing T.

  • ASF

    I think I have the explanation for why I feel so blah, cannot concentrate, and a whole host of other motivational problems.

    My t-levels, straight from my endocrinologist:

    Total testosterone 290 (ref 262 – 1593)
    Free testosterone 6.0 (ref 7.4 – 22.6)

    Fucking hell. I have the t-levels of some septuagenarian and I’m 40. I guess I’ll just do some wind sprints guys!

    • Danger & Play

      Ouch. I hope you’re getting the treatment you need.

    • BA

      My levels were similar. And I had a hard time focusing, tired all the time, and moody as fuck.

      No more.

  • Been There, DONE THAT

    “Can’t I just raise my testosterone levels naturally? Sure. Take that Vitamin D and eat those almonds and pop zinc tablets and do those heavy squats. Maybe it will work. Good luck.” Yes, you can. You don’t need TRT if you just put a little effort into doing those things. No “luck” involved. Why are trying to mislead people?

    • derthal

      I agree. A quick fix is not a good fix.

    • Danger & Play

      I am secretly an agent of Big Pharma and my mission is to get the world addicted to dangerous testosterone medications.

      You have an angry tone about you. Did you know that testosterone does not make men moody? It eases the edges.

      Moodiness comes from too much estrogen circulating in the bloodstream.

      Get that checked out.

      • David T

        Right on the mark. Had all the symptoms, started at 40ish, didn’t get it checked until I was 52. I was off the chart moody and angry, helped ruin my marriage. Once I got on the TRT within a week it was like, I’m normal again.

        This calming confidence just took over and I’ve been even keel ever since.

        In addition, like the comment above. been running/lifting since senior in high school. Since 40ish my strength, stamina, endurance all fading until I got on the TRT. They all improved, like I was a young buck again!

        I’m normal and like you stated above I knew as the years were passing I was becoming less and less a man. I know, whatever it takes, i’ll never go back to how it was in those dark years again! If I have to go off the TRT my life is effectively over.

  • Michael

    First off, great post. I was confused about TRT. I really like how you laid out how the doctors are clueless and provided a solution via an anti aging clinic. In my experience with low test, general practitioners are utterly clueless.

    I would like to explain my testosterone booster experience. I am 58 with a level of 498 total. I began a year and a half ago at 287 total. I was able to boost it to 498 by weights, cycling boosters (about 9 of them, one type a day), a blakoe ring, and weights. As you can see, I worked my ass off for it, and I did get a nice bump. The supplements run me about $35 to 50 a week. But, I leveled off within six months and cannot break the 500 plateau. Bummer. I am going in for a blood test tomorrow. If I am still in the low 500’s I am definitely looking at TRT and an anti aging clinic.

    I would love to hear anybody’s results with TRT.

    Thanks again Danger!

    • Danger & Play

      It’s great that you brought it up, and although my post was flip, yes it’s possible to naturally raise it.

      But.

      You did everything right, and yet your levels are still below average. 500 is OK and not cause for alarm, but that’s still slightly below average.

      I don’t like being average. ;)

  • reaper23

    I’d say your estimate of $50 to $100 is even high for those who can get a Dr. to treat them.

    My insurance covers my endo appt – copay $40 / six months
    CVS 10ML bottle – $100 / six months

    $280 per year

    • Danger & Play

      Yessir. I used a high estimate just because I’m tired of guys saying it’s expensive.

      If you’re a man old enough to be on TRT and can’t afford $50-100 a month, please get your life in order.

  • anon1

    Interesting, i’m in my mid 20s but still thinking of having my testosterone profile checked out.

    So you’re saying that knowing when to start is the main issue, because you’ll basically be replacing wholesale between old balls mcgee and the injections right?

    my question is when [age wise] is the best time to go on to it?

    and secondly, as i am still a young’in what are the best ‘natural testosterone’ buildings methods i can do?

    i know it wont be anywhere near actually just getting the injections but i’m not at that point yet.

    your thoughts?

  • Middle-Age Male

    Am currently on TRT with the pellets in my ass. Started out injecting 1 time a week and did not notice any benefits. After 6 weeks on the pellets, I am sorry I had them. Level at 1078 but had cellulitis and took a very powerful antibiotic for 6 days which made me feel like shit. Have a bit more energy but sex drive is no better than when it was 460. Sperm and semen production dropped significantly and my testicles ache after ejaculation.

    One thing is is that someone with a level of 400 can be fine. The range is pretty wide and everyone’s level is different. I feel no different at 1078 except for those things mentioned than I did at 460. If you think it’s for you, give it a shot.

    The pellets were 600.00 and can last anywhere from 3 to 6 months and averages about 4 to 5.

    • Danger & Play

      Are you using HCG?

      • Middle-Age Male

        No

        • Danger & Play

          Talk to your doctor about it and look into it for yourself.

  • Englishdave

    I think it’s also worth noting that splitting your weekly dosage (2 50-75mcg shots per week) creates much more stable blood levels. Even with a longer ester like enanthate or cyphonate blood levels appear to peak after 4-5 days after administration. Plus you also limit estrogen conversion. What are your thoughts on small amounts of additional compounds. Though strictly not trt it seems that say adding trenbalone enanthate at 100mcg per week doesn’t seem to negatively affect blood profiles

    • Danger & Play

      Testerone + masteron = ultimate TRT. Masteron is anabolic in its own right and also an anti-aromatization compound.

  • Carlo

    Thanks for the enlightening and informative article.

    First, I’m 55 and have been on TRT injections for about 6 months (although I missed two months due to health reasons). My levels were in the mid-200s. I was surprised to see I’ve been prescribed it incorrectly, according to your article. My doctor prescribes me 200mg every two weeks. He might go up to 250 if my bloodwork showed I needed more, but now you say that even his concept of what might be “normal” level may be off. Question: Should I start splitting my injections into half doses every week for the time being?

    Second, I’ve noticed having a hard time shedding fat and my man-boobs are growing. You briefly discuss using triptorelin, HMG or HCG if I were to stop TRT, but can I also take one of them in conjunction with TRT to help temper the gynocomastia effects?

    Thanks

    • Danger & Play

      Is it true gyno (as in fatty deposits under the nipples) or is it just an increase in sag caused by aging skin and excess body fat?

      At TRT does, gyno shouldn’t be a problem. Is your doctor testing your estrogen levels when doing blood work? Ask him for your full lab work and check out what your estrogen level is.

  • ste from the uk

    Awesome write up. Ive just had my blood tests done today so awaiting the results.
    Im 38 years old and live in England. If my results come back low and if my doctor agrees to put me on trt to the dose you say and inject once a week, can you tell me in order anything else i need to do in future….
    How often do i need to get blood work done when im on trt?
    Do i need to take anything else for my liver?? Ive read it can enlarge the liver is that correct??
    Also do you reccomend anything else to take to keep healthy when on the trt?

  • Flroy1981

    Great info here! I’m 33 yrs old. I got blood done a month ago and I’m at 148ng/dl. I have to go in for 200mg injection once a month for 3 months then she will test levels again. She won’t test estrogen nor let me inject at home. She doesn’t want to hear about AI’s either. I live in a rural area so I don’t have many docs to choose from. Do you think Anti Aging clinics would accept my blood work from my doc so I don’t have to drive across my state to see them?

    • Danger & Play

      She’s an idiot, bro. Sorry to say that but that’s the raw truth. Your testosterone blood levels will spoke and then plummet in between injections. You’ll be moody and irritable.

      Please find a competent medical professional.

  • http://spm Stephen Mott

    Can you give me names of AI clinics that charge $50- 100 a month? I’ve been researching for a few weeks now and the cheapest I’ve been able to find is around $200. I appreciate the help, and btw great article.

    • Danger & Play

      I don’t know where you live.

      Beverly Hills only (well, that’s not cheap but that’s 90210 zip code, ya know?) charges $800 a year + whatever the costs of supplies.

  • tRr

    D&P,

    If you have low T and want to do a BB steroid cycle, is there should you get your levels in the normal range first?

    Is there anything I’m missing if you cycle with low T?

    • Danger & Play

      If you have low T and can’t raise it naturally (eating more dietary fats, eating fewer cards; taking zinc, magnesium, and Vitamin D; lifting heavy), then you should consult with your doctor about TRT.

  • AZGUY

    Great thread!

    I started TRT 5 weeks ago. I’m 46 and my level was at 203. I live in Phoenix and I went to a local clinic that specializes in TRT (Ageless Male). Prior to starting treatment I was moody, tired and had really started gaining weight around my stomach. I workout regularly (4-5 week) and I just didn’t feel right. I went through some basic tests and lab work and started TRT at 150 mg/week and 1/2 tablet of Arimidex twice per week. I stayed with this protocol for the first month and then had labs done again. My level at the end of the first month was 948 which is “a little high” according to my doc. My clinic does labs at the end of every month. At week 4 I was given the option of adding bi-weekly injections of HCG which I elected to do. My doc lowered my weekly injection to 130 mg and decreased my HCG to 1/4 tablets twice a week. I feel much better and I’m really glad I decided to start the treatment.

    Cost.

    I’m sure this can be done cheaper but this is how my costs breakdown. If I use my insurance (UHC) I pay $80 per week which includes testosterone, Arimidex, and HCG. If I pay cash I can get the same treatment for $50 per week. While I realize this can be done cheaper via a compound pharmacy or “mail order” I really like the staff at the clinic and I like the comfort of having monthly labs.

    HTH

    • Danger & Play

      Cool, man. Thanks for sharing your real world experience. Sounds like it’s working out well for you!

  • Chris

    Im 43 yrs old and weigh 225 pounds. Had my blood work done last sept and my T level was 152. Doc gave me 400mg shot and put me on androgel, 4 pumps daily. After a couple months, sex drive and appetite through the roof but the androgel was a pain in the ass to use every day. Asked my doc to prescribe injections but he said no. Had my blood work done again after 4 months of androgel and T levels came in at 223…got referred to a sports nutrition doc who prescribed me Testosterone cypionate 200mg per week and anastrozole 1mg every other day. Says should take me to high normal. A little surprised my t level was only 223 after using androgel. Should I split up the dose at 100mg every 4 days or continue with once a week? Plan on doing this permanently so hopefully doss is not too high. Only on week 2 of thus treatment so have another couple months til blood test. Costco only gives me 4 1ml bottles per month due to insurance regulations which is fine… Costs me $37 for everything to get started…

    • Danger & Play

      We answer that and more in our next podcast. We’ll drop it in a week or so at:

      Soundclound.com/DangerAndPlay

  • SunDance

    D&P,

    I commented before here discussing test boosting supplements and my luck with them. Well fuck it, I found an anti aging doctor and had 1500 mg of test installed in my backside 4 weeks ago and a prescription for Arimidex, no luck on the HCG. I paid cash since my primary doctor is clueless. Fuck head, I am so firing him.

    Starting to see some amazing stuff happening; all still small, but significant. Lean mass gains, fat mass loss, ED decreasing, libido increasing, energy increasing, lift strength increasing, zest for life keeps rising. Every week is like Xmas with new test effects coming on stronger. Blood test next week which the insurance does pay for.

    Any older gents (over 4o) on the fence, jump in, the water is better than warm and the women, sex, and life is amazing.

    Thanks,
    Where do I send your check?

    • Danger & Play

      That’s great. You’re going to love our next podcast, which will cover advanced TRT.

  • Ron Jackson

    Hi just started to receive injections about 7 weeks ago I have noticed some difference but minimal. I was supposed to be taking the hcg at the same time but i did not have the money to do both at the time i started but the clinic where i go just reduced the price to where its only 40 bucks a month i hope i start to notice a difference with the hcg and the injections. Regardless, i”m in it for the long haul.

    • Danger & Play

      Get blood work measured. Find out what your testosterone levels are. Take the subjective element out of it.

      • ron

        my levels were 335 at the start of me getting treatment, i go in about three days to do a follow up and get my levels checked again.

  • TRP

    Thanks for the post. Very easy to read, and straight forward. I went through to doctors before I found one that kind of understood. My current doc just upped my dose to 300mg every 2 weeks from 200mg. My T level was at 540 (200mg).
    These shots have greatly improved my rheumatoid arthritis symptoms, among many others. — here’s my question that’s going to sound stupid. If 300 mg injected once every two weeks can get me a level of a round 800, can 150 mg every week get me T levels close to 1200? 1200 is where I want to be. Thanks.

    • Danger & Play

      That’s a good question. It’s answered in our next podcast. The podcast will likely drop this Friday. Stay tuned! ; )

  • testo

    Hey man,

    Which dosage (mg/wk) is the borderline between replacement and enhancement for most people?
    Also, there’s controversy about aromatization in muscle and fat tissues, hence SQ and IM injections. How would you compare the two?

    • Danger & Play

      100 mg for some might be enough, others might need 200.

      There’s “controversy” online among guys who do not take an analytic approach to this stuff.

      If you take a SQ injection and your labs show that your estrogen levels are within range, then there is no controversy. Yes?

      I keep beating the same drum and repeating myself. Blood work, blood work, blood work.

      If you don’t have blood work, you are guessing. If guys online are talking about estrogen levels and not mentioning blood work, then they are frauds and charlatans and keyboard pretenders.

      • testo

        You make an assumption that SQ vs IM results depend on individuals.
        Are there grounds for this, something in the way of studies of systematic differences (or lack thereof) between the two delivery modes?

        All bottles says ‘IM only,’ perhaps for a reason…

        • Danger & Play

          Why ask me questions and then pester me with passive aggressive comments? Go troll somewhere else, man.

  • Anofuctus

    A very good article. Google has the best search engine which lead me to this site.
    My question to Google: Will 1,500mg. of testosterone a month eventually kill me? Funny huh? lol
    I began using/taking anabolic steroids on Jan. 6, 2006. I remember filling up the very first syringe for my first injection. No nervousness at all because I decided on that day this is going to be for life so put that nervousness away. Around this same time, I had to go to the hospital for a BPH.exam and blood drawing. The BPH had been going on way before my AAS usage. A month later I went in to see an urologist to discuss the results. As the urologist was going over the results he saw my blood test results and this fucker went spastic on me after he told me that my test level was >1,500ng/dl. and that I was taking steroids. He then proceeded to lecture me about the dangers of using steroids and sharing needles with my buddies in the locker.room. He proposed that I allow the test level to drop, come in for a blood test, get measured, and then come back and see him to be put on TRT which he considered safer than the locker room.. I never felt so miserable and depressed in all my life during the time the test was getting lower and lower.
    I stayed intoxicated most of the time which help a bit. Test level dropped to 223ng/dl. and he was pleased. I felt like pure hell.
    He scheduled the appointment for my first injection a few days later. 300mg/ml every two weeks! WTH? A drop in the bucket! I went along for 2 months until I saw another doctor and persuaded him to allow me to do home injections that way I wouldn’t have to have blood drawn every two weeks. I went back to injecting my own stuff and kept the TRT stuff which I have 12 unused vials left. I hope I’m not boring you guys.
    Everything was going OK. I’m getting my vials and syringes via courier to my home and I’m feeling great. About 10 days ago, my PCP calls me and tells me that I’ve been suspended from TRT until I have blood work done! She told me that it was ordered by the urologist and the endocrinologist agreed. I guess this asshole had nothing else better to do then to look over patients records on his computer and he saw that my test level too high to be on the prescribed
    dose of 300mg. every 2 weeks. Since 2009, I’ve always kept test at >1,500ng/dl every month and then by the end of the month it’s around 650ng/dl. I guess this urologist and endo doc wanted it at 300ng/dl. I’ve decided to go in on March 3rd for the blood drawing and when I have to come into see the urologist and endocrinologist I simply won’t go to see them. I don’t need another lecture.
    I cannot believe these two clowns are making such a big issue out of this. It’s my life and I will not kowtow to them. I just hope that these 2 assholes will not try to suspend my other hospital privileges as well. By the way fellas, that BPH I wrote about above, it’s no longer present thanks to my high dosing of Test E and my balls are still intact..

    • testo

      Do you trust your ‘other sources’ sell you the pharma grade T, not motor oil?

      Plan to stay on 300mg/wk in the future? Any sides you’ve seen from that?

      • Anofuctus

        No I don’t trust my sources, except one. I have injected plain cottonseed oils, vials with just a hint of anything in it, set samples to a lab and they came back only 25% to nothing! Out of 2 grand with that fuck up! Motor oil? LOL What about the other automotive fluids you left out?
        No I don’t plan to stay on 1,500mg/ml a month. The 1,500mg/ml I do take is done with one injection a month. This keeps my test level over >1500ng/dl and this gradually goes does to about 400-600ng/dl by the end of the month whereupon I take the first of the month injection once again. I’m planning on increasing my dose to 2,500mg/ml. a month in one monthly shot. I’ve got some serious training coming up and I need the boost. I plan to stay on for the rest of my life as long as my only supplier stay in business, but if he goes out of business there are some other potential prospects..

  • pm

    Almost every test boosters dont work. The only one I know who does work is indonesian tongkat ali root extract. Indonesian not malaysian. Be sure to take the 1:200 dose. It is working as long as you take it, but you have to cycle it. I know it works, my testicules and penis are larger from using it and I have higher testosterone, no doubt about it.

    • bbb1129

      great article. thank you!

      i’m 31 and have been on TRT for one year. currently working with an AI clinic because my primary doc is clueless. however, the costs are getting to be too much and this is something my insurance should be paying. i’m about to begin interviewing specialized doctors for treatment but not sure if i should start with endo’s or urologists. what do you recommend?

      • Anofuctus

        I see an urologist and an endocrinologist and they are clueless as hell when it comes to testosterone levels in men. They want my test level at 300ng/dl. for my age. I’m 58 years old. I keep my test level between 1,000-1,500ng/dl. every month and these two fucking doctors don’t like it If you can get your insurance to pay it good luck to you. If not, I would go online and buy my stuff which I did because I no longer receive TRT because the doctors.kicked me off TRT. Anyway I’m glad that the TRT is over and don’t have to worry about lowering my testosterone to 250-300ng/dl every to stay on the program. A random blood gave my steroid usage away. Why don’t you go to an anti-aging clinic where the doctors and personnel know exactly what they are doing instead of an urologist and endocrinologist that don’t know jack shit about testosterone replacement.

        • bbb1129

          thanks for the response.!

          i’m currently working with an anti-aging clinic who knows their stuff but i’m shelling out hunders a month, thousands a year.
          seeing how i legitimately need TRT i feel i should be able to legitimately get it through my insurance but i’m finding that most docs are clueless.
          if you had to pick between a urologist and an endocrinologist who would you say would be more inclined to have a clue?

          • Danger & Play

            An endo. Also, go on Yelp. Search for TRT or testosterone. See which docs in your area pop up.

            That or charge your TRT “to the game.” Whatever. It’s not free. But the extra vitality it gives you should pay for itself 10x over.

          • Anofuctus

            I used see an endocrinologist and an urologist; not anymore
            These two guys have no idea about where my testosterone levels should be at my present age of 58.
            I was receiving my Test and syringes thru the VAMC, but no longer because both doctors have stopped my mailings because one of them had to have looked at all of my blood test results then suspected me of using steroids and want me to come in for a blood test to confirm their suspicions. I’ll go in one day next week and get this over with.
            If I had my choice, I’d rather go to an anti-aging clinic where the doctors know what they are doing.

  • Benjamin

    I am 18 and have a total testosterone of 295ng/dl, my prolactin levels are above the normal range, Should I aim to lower my prolactin levels to raise my testosterone levels or would TRT be best course of action

    • Danger & Play

      Buddy, 18 is a young young man. I would try raising my levels naturally. Have you done everything possible to raise your testosterone levels using natural means such as:

      heavy lifting
      lower carbohydrates
      no processed foods
      vitamin d
      zinc and magnesium
      lots of saturated fats (eggs, beef)
      lots of other dietary fats (olive oil, nuts, etc.)

      ?

      You are 18 and should view TRT as a last resort.

      • Benjamin

        Yeah TRT would not be my first choice considering I’m only 18, but yes I’ve tried everything naturally, I go to the gym 5 times a week, 3400kcal a day, 90-100g fat, at least 35g saturated fats, I take zma, multivitamins etc diet is virtually 100% clean, generally sleep is 8+ hours. I wouldn’t mind the slow muscle gains, but the symptoms of low test are just too much, especially since I am 18. Would going on TRT really be that bad at my age, I know it’s not at all optimum

        • Danger & Play

          Damn bro I am legitimately sorry to hear that. Are you seeing an endocrinologist?

          • Benjamin

            Thanks and yeah im seeing one at the end of March, just trying to find out as much as I can atm, I hear its hard finding a doctor who knows a lot about low T and considering im only 18 I cant imagine the doctor taking me seriously or doing a lot about it, id hate to end up on androgel :/

          • Lazy

            High prolactine levels lead to low testostreone levels. In men high prolactine levels are often caused due to a tumore in your pituitary gland, so please check via mri scan.

    • Anofuctus

      You’re too young for TRT gels, patches. Do you want your natural test to be shutdown for life? Using test at your age may affect your sperm count. Just speculation, but I know it will shrink your balls because I don’t have any. I was too late in getting to the HCG!
      You might want to type into your search bar: “How do I lower prolactin and raise my testosterone naturally?” There you will find your answers.

    • Danger & Play

      By the way, Cabaser lowers prolactin. See if you can get some from your doctor.

    • Anofuctus

      That’s a good idea for starters and there are quite a bit of natural herbal supplements, pills, and powders you can take without resorting to TRT, HGH or steroids.
      Using such medications at your age can possibly shut down your own body’s ability to produce its own testosterone and your sperm cell count and with that happening you’d truly be fucked! No pun intended.

  • edward John

    I have all the symptoms of low t times 10.
    I had blood work done and my vitamin d was low.
    And My testosterone level was at 80!!!
    My dr prescribe 200mg every two weeks and insists on holding my medication and administering himself so there is now no way I can take more.
    Is this enough? Sounds like I should be on double that our art get the it every week.
    I need some info to bring him in two weeks at my next shot so I can get him to give me more if the 200mg every 2 wks is too low.

    I don’t want to put my liver through this and not even get the proper results and still feel like a useless human being.

    Thanks

    • Danger & Play

      Check out our podcast where we answer that question and more: http://s6889.p20.sites.pressdns.com/2014/02/24/testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt-podcast/

    • Anofuctus

      It’s always the universal fear that steroids will either destroy your heart and arteries and steroids will ruin your liver. Like the other poster replied, “My life would be eventually over if I were to stop taking steroids” It is my panacea and I’ll never stop using them. I use steroids with my health and life first and foremost. I take plenty of supplements, very little prescription medicines, I exercise 3-4 times a week and I make sure that I take liver protectants daily.

  • Frank Phillips

    I am 52 and have been on shots- 300mg every two weeks- for eight months.Last time I was checked total test was 400 10 days after shot. I went on TRT due to fatigue- feeling drained, kind of like coming down with the flu for most of the day. Dr ran numerous tests, but nothing was abnormal. After about four months on the shots I started to sleep better than I had in years and I would say my fatigue has gone from bad to better, but still do not feel great.

    I will be going on self administered shots and I wondering if I should seek a increase in the dosage. Current dosage would equal 150 a week and an wondering if I should ask the Dr if i can go to 200 a week. Considering the limited information I have provided, do you think that is a high dosage for someone looking to alleviate fatigue symptoms? I am concerned my Dr. may start to think I am looking for athletic gains as he knows I lift.

    Thank you for your time,
    Frank

    • Anofuctus

      If you know exactly what you are doing and comfortable about self-administration of your TRT then more power to you Frank.. 800mg. looks good to me. I take 1,500mg a month in a single dose.
      I don’t like injecting no more than once month.week and I very great. Good luck to you.

    • AKA

      You are describing my situation to a T, except I have not started any HRT therapy yet.. I am tired all of the time, no matter how much sleep I get. I have seen sleep doctors, and many others. THey just tell me to excersize more. FUck that. I am in very good shape. I had some lab work done by a general practitioner and have a follow up appointment next week. If you would, post back here with what course of action you are taking.

      Personally, if I do not get relief from this MD, I am going to do what D+P suggested in his podcast, take a vacation to Las VEgas and see an anti-aging clinic.

    • Danger & Play

      Have you listened to our podcast? We discuss those questions and many more:

      http://s6889.p20.sites.pressdns.com/2014/02/24/testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt-podcast/

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      fireyourquack.com

      Find some TProp-dose yourself every other day at 50mgs.
      Your comment frightens me. “I am concerned my Dr. may start to think I am looking for athletic gains as he knows I lift”.

  • trenbrah

    Lifestyle Stack:

    200 to 300mg Any type of test every 5 days
    4iu GH PHARM GRADE (2am/2pm)
    50 to 100mcg T4 every am
    250iu HCG every 3 days
    700 to 900mg Equipose Mon/Wed/Fri (Add this for Vegas pool party season if you want. Your skin shrink wraps around the muscle, you get the cupped delts, better stamina and that overall animal look. I recommend taking 5htp and GABA with this if you are prone to anxiety.)
    If an AI is needed, use Aromasin. It is the most healthy AI out there.

    There you have it, the ultimate lifestyle stack. Fuck going to the doctor and them giving you 150mg of test every two weeks. Become your own doctor like Mike says all the time. Screw you guys who say injecting sucks. Its just like brushing your teeth, prob takes even less time. Awesome site.

    • Jamie

      My Anti Ageing Clinic Prescribes 400 MG a week of test 200 mg deca a week HCG 250 IU twice a week 2IU of Sermorelin a day I could get the HGH prescribed as well but it’s very expensive and they only prescribe 1 IU a day so I get Pfizer Genotropin from a mother who has a son that’s a dwarf. Do you take the EQ year round?

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      Trenbrah….we need to meet up bro. Holla at me: socaljayc@outlook.com

    • Ayrton S

      Would masteron compliment this at all? Why choose equipose?

      • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

        Hey Bro!

        EQ builds capillary density and most importantly regenerates Collagen like no other.

        Masteron offers nothing like that as it is a hardening/strength drug.

        Tell me your goal-and I would be happy to help guide you in your stack and dosage.

        #payitforward

        • Ayrton S

          Wow thanks Jay, that’s awesome of you. You’re probably the first person to offer advice without being snide about it. I don’t particularly ask questions, i research a lot, i was pretty curious about EQ being recommended at that dose and frequency, just for a shrink wrapping affect; although not that I read it, i’m thinking he didn’t mean 700-900mg 3x a week haha.

          My goal really is to maximally enhance my self prescribed TRT (my test level last year was 178 and my GP wouldn’t prescribe, only said to lift weights more. I lifted 5 times a week at the time). And chiefly concerned with the feeling of my vitality and also aesthetically looking my best. I’ve always either been big and muscular, or shrunken and lean. I’d prefer big, Muscular and ripped. My stats Jay are these; I’m in my late late 20’s, 6’1, 200-211 pounds, been training for 9 years. Olympic Weightlifting under competitive coaches for 4 years, then powerlifting focused for another 4 after i peaked from Oly. Now i’m bodybuilding, or at least trying to, the concept is so different from what i’m used to. I’m taking in a lot of what You and Mike teach about HIT and looking to incorporate that into the few movements and exercises that I know work best for certain muscles I won’t to bring up and pronounce. I’ve always had to a unnatural amount (400g protein +) to put on any muscle size or weight, and could maintain my dietary regime for a few months but get burned out and go back to eating normal and healthy (150-200g protein normally) and i’d fall back to my average weight, I’m starting to think this had to do with my abysmal testosterone levels. I have no idea how long they had been that low.

          Currently on 250-300mg of Test E for the last year (scale weight went from 178 to 200 in 6 months), i’ve done 100mg of Test E with 100mg of Tren E as a modified TRT after being on for about 6 months (Something I found suggested on a couple forums), didn’t see much difference, and dabbled with lower dose test (125mg) and low to moderate Tren (250-525), but I feel my best with atleast 250-300mg test, which ends up bringing out tren’s sides for me unfortunately after a few weeks, psychological effects are what end up making me come off once i moved past 300mg (Way to confrontational), so i stopped abruptly. I seem to respond well with low doses (200-300 range), and haven’t seen fit to run anything else moderate to high for any length of time. At the moment, I’ve only used long-ester testosterone, short and long ester tren, and superdrol (no sides, great results).

          I’m not looking to blast hard and then come off, i’m a big believer in slow and long. It’s a marathon, not a race, and i’m on this for life. Any insight or suggestions you have would be very much appreciated Jay, thanks so much brother.

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            Hey Bro! Thanks for the discertation. :) i think you are already on the right path. Tren every so often at low doses is fine. Drink lots of water and dont drink alcohol while using it. TProp is def best for bros. Being in it for the long haul is the most imp thing. Mike and I just did a Podcast on TRT which will blow all previous out of the water. Be looking for it and keep reading my friend. My blog will have amazing training intel soon enough.

        • Giacomo Berlandi

          Hey can. You help. Me?
          I am a forty four year old man
          Did some stuff when i was younger but never right
          What I’m looking for is to be lean and defined and hard right now I am 5’11 203 – 210 pounds would like to get to 195 but like I said I want to lean hard and defined and little body fat.
          What would you recommend ?

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            First get your body fat measured. Then start debiting calories at 15-20% of maintenance intake. Then AM Empty Stomach Cardio daily. Then assess after 15 days by how your clothes fit. You could also listen more to our podcasts which answer all of your questions. You can also read my site http://www.fabfitover40.com.

          • Giacomo Berlandi

            Thank you jay I will keep you posted
            Is there anything you can suggest to take. Or options.

  • Enrique

    Does TRT works for a 67 years old ectomorph? My total testosterone is 469 ng/dl.

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      Hell Fucking Yes it does. Do you weight train? If not-get at it.
      Read everything you can here. And read my site too. http://www.fabfitover40.com

      • Enrique

        Thanks Jay for your reply, I’m from Mexico. I do weight training and I’m having 5 meals per day. My question arises since my dietitian recommended TRT, but I’m still reluctant due to the effects it could have on me. Is it safe?

        • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

          Enrique…you need to read and listen more around here. Of course it’s safe. You’re question has already been answered. And as a 68 year old man who has lived more than 70% of his life(statistically)-what are you worried about?

    • Benjamin Colin

      Just get yourself to a gym or into some kind of exercise regimen and you will see a tremendous change in your mind and body. FOR REAL!!!

      • Enrique

        Thanks Benjamin. I am already going to a gym. Will see results and decide.

        • Anofuctus

          I had to take another look at your first reply again.
          Total test is 469ng/dl!!!! You don’t need TRT at all.
          My total test was 198ng/dl at times to 223ng/dl before TRT and I’m almost 10 years younger than you. What is your secret for such a Test range at your age?

          • Enrique

            ¿Secret? None at all. I did not knew about testosterone until my doctor mentioned it. I have always been super skinny so now that I am going to the gym I told him that I want more weight and look fine (some muscles and weight) and answer that at my age (sarcopenia) the only way was TRT to gain muscles, so I went to internet found this page and due to this I tested my T levels.

  • Mike Wilson

    Wow! my second comment and first after reading all of your comments section. wide range of viewpoints out there. you definitely are spending some serious time responding, thanks. btw, 4 year trt user and you are right about pre trt life and post trt life, would rather have a bullet in my head than go back, go get ‘em D@P!

  • Orah

    Great article! I was wondering if anyone can comment on the “highs and lows” of TRT. I just started TRT after visiting my doctor for a host of symptoms. My T level was around 180 (yikes) and that was in the morning. The doc has started me on 200mg every two weeks. My first shot was Friday.

    I’ve been reading about highs and lows and that many seems to find weekly better than every two weeks. What should I look out for and what do the “lows” feel like? I may or may not experience this but it’s peaked my curiosity.

    • Danger & Play

      Your doctor is not treating your properly, based on the best available scientific knowledge available.

      Listen to our podcast for more info:

      http://s6889.p20.sites.pressdns.com/2014/02/24/testosterone-replacement-therapy-trt-podcast/

    • Anofuctus

      I’m done with the nosy doctors at the TRT clinic. 200mg. every 2 weeks!
      I’m going back to 1,500mg. a month.

      • Danger & Play

        Unfortunately many people are forced to self-medicate.

      • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

        Smart Move…

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      High and Lows???? Because Modern Endo’s are QUACKS! This only happens when your dosing is too low and infrequent for the body to maintain a more even and level test blood dosage. These threads are really scaring me. MY ZOD ABOVE!

  • Kosta Kostou

    Hi guys, wonderful info and thanks for sharing all your experience! After being almost convinced myself with all symptoms described that I got low T levels as D&P say-blood test! Tomorrow I am going for one to see what is going on… I got a question if you don’t mind,someone if can advice from his experience I need an answer please,as I am 35 years old and still looking forward for our first baby with my wife,but something is not happening lately….few years ago unfortunately she had to do an abortion,so I am sure I could make babies then..but the question is – will increasing my Test levels vie administration of Test will help me do generation and is that dangerous?? For the child?
    Anyone who did children while on TRT?!
    Thank you guys and to D&P for the useful info also!

    • Danger & Play
      • Kosta Kostou

        Hi again,thank you guys,very informative podcast!
        Got the test from Lab it shows 460,but I noticed that it is made by ECLIA method for which I found out that usually gives increased numbers,so it my level might be easily even lower… And all this is after I unintentionally was doing everything almost to naturally increased my levels-Tribulus and ZMA I am taking from few months at least, changed my lifting routine to verry heavy-HIT training, vitamins and minerals are not an issue,even I was doing 1-2 times wind sprints per week for a month or so……
        So the numbers of Labs are after all this! So I am really impatient to make a kid finally and the only concern will be after where to find cheep supply of Test,coz in the country I live here are all idiots! :-) The symptoms for low Test are so shit after I realize it! Poor wife she is getting my depression and anger on her head sometimes…Fuck that…
        However guys,thanks again for opening my eyes…
        Just one more question,may be you touched it in the podcast but I just don’t remember it- if I go on TRT …for life,and keep my levels in upper border via whatever quantity per week it is needed-will I experience side effects from the administering Test mostly- higher estrogen lets say(mine is in check now) , in case I keep the levels in just the best possible upper borders or this is natural for the body and as long you are not going over ( as bodybuilding cycles) everything is fine? What do you think guys?
        Thanks again..
        Regards from Cyprus!

        • Danger & Play

          Estrogen is generally not an issue while on TRT doses, although lab work should always be done.

  • Jon

    I loved reading your page, managed to get my doctor to prescribe 100 every 5 days of Depo Tesosterone after hitting him with the information that I found here., would like some more info on email please..

    • Danger & Play

      That’s great to hear.

      • jon9972

        I would like to find out more information that the Doctors in my area will not release.. As a child I had a head injury and pituitary gland damage and this caused very low testosterone. , was just trying to find the results , I am I think.. 03 or. 3 where the low should not be below. 9. Or.. 09

        . I never entered puberty as a normal boy and did not start shaving until 30 and then only once every two weeks,even now ten years on I shave once a week, have very little body or pubic hair and what I have is similar to when I was eleven years old. The hair on my head grows quickly but this runs in the family.

        Although all my features are very manly, I have noticed that since taking testosterone I feel great, I feel alive and so confident. I am a different person. For a long time I have suffered severe pains in my joints and was given high doses of tramadol to suppress the pain. And diclofenac. All of those pains have gone. No one ever wanted to prescribe any meds as when I had the head injury I had some bad ceasures for a few months.

        Have been prescribed 100mg of testosterone every five days. If I doubled the dose how much if any damage could it do, also when I have another blood test in three months time would it cause elevated readings and as a result the doc would then reduce the dosage on my script.. If I do go ahead and double my dosage how soon should I stop before the next blood test so the results are not affected..

        I have a little bit of groin soreness and some spots on my shoulders, but don’t know what is causing this. Not sure if to speak to the doc in case he reduces the dosage or takes me off the Testosterone

        The wife is with me on the double dosage as she likes the feeling of being prodded in the back every morning.

        .

  • Danny Gonzalez

    Great write up guys and thanks for the information that a lot of us need. I found your site through Google and heard the Podcast on TRT. I was one of those guys that had to come off TRT because my Hemoglobin and Red Blood Cell count would not go down no matter what I did. It got to the point where I was donating every 2 weeks just to keep it from skyrocketing and that’s when I decided to try to come off and restart my own production. I consulted Michael Scally and tried his protocol for a month with no good results. I was wondering what you would recommend and what seems to work best besides HCG? I heard you mention HMG and Triptorelin. And how do you I know if I am permanently screwed? 3 months? A year? Scally said sometimes it can take a year :( Thanks again!!

  • Benjamin Colin

    Even though I shouldn’t start back at that 1,500mg , but that’s my “comfort zone”!!!

  • Jacob

    Today I’m 126.6 and it’s only been 4 weeks on low dose testosterone cypionate (67mg) and 5mcg of cytomel (t3) I’m eating so little calories (2100) and before I started te Meds I was loosing weight eating this amount. I don’t think I am able to gain that much muscle in that short of a time doing nothing different to my diet and training, it’s just psyiologically impossible :( I am 18 5’9 and my fifth shot of testosterone is tomorrow. I was 114 lbs and loosing weight before I started these meds. Please can anyone help me I am so ready to die I can’t take this. (I suffered anorexia at the age of 13)

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      OMG. Jacob….who is your Endo? 67mgs of Testosterone Cypionate? per week?
      You’ve been shut down even further than what your body was making endogenously.
      Hopefully you are not a troll?

      • Anofuctus

        “Just trollin’ along …”

  • http://SeattleGuy.com/ Seattle Guy

    I have been getting 250mg injections every two weeks for the past year. I stopped 3 weeks ago. In one year of injections, my testicles have shrunk 60% and my sperm count dropped 80%. I have a very well known doctor here in Seattle who is a Urologist. He gave me all the warnings.
    3 weeks with no injections and I am still waiting to feel the dreaded drop in energy and sex drive. When that hits, I will at that time reconsider the injections. I am 48 years old and read all the stats on long term effects. Just surprised me that I would shrink up so quickly. Actually this is a good thing since I am very active and they were way to big anyway.

    • Benjamin Colin

      “250 mg. injections with testicular shrinkage?” Are you from another planet? And you’re at 80%? Mini-nuts!! LOL There is something definitely wrong with your hormonal system. I can take anywhere from 3,000mg, to 5grams of Test E a month and get “superman horniness” and a good mood and energy every month. Go to an endocrinologist ASAP!

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      WTF? Your Endo is a QUACK! WACKY QUACKY! What warnings? A Urologist? You sure he wasn’t a UFO-logist? Might of well been.

      Are you using SERM’s? Anti E’s? At 48 years old who cares how low your Sperm Count is? Are you planning on having kids now?

      Best of luck bro but you definitely need to read and listen to more around here.

  • Johnny Spade

    When for well over a year I felt like I was literally dying I researched my symptoms and began to suspect I had loe testosterone. So a few months ago, at 38 years of age, I went to my primary care Dr., who surprisingly knew quite a bit about TRT and echoed a lot of my research. After my blood level results came in I was floored. My levels were 21 ng/dl the first test, and after the Dr. wanted to double check and also have me tested in the early morning when supposedly T levels are at their highest, my second results came back almost the same, 28 ng/dl ! Under 40 years old and a T level of well under 100…I was blown away but glad I finally had an answer to my listless, low energy, depressed and just blah state of living. I have been on TRT for just over 6 weeks, taking 200mg every 2 weeks via IM injection. I feel tons better, still a ways away from 100%, but on the road to Wellville for sure. This articles point of taking weekly injections instead of bi-weekly has made me want to experiment with trying 100mg a week versus the 1mL/200mg every 2 weeks I have been taking. Either way I believe my quality of life has been saved by TRT and encourage anyone over 35 to at least get their levels checked if they have any symptoms that are making them feel less of a normal man. Thanks for the great site and humorously delivered vital information. . .Johnny Spade

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      Hi Johnny! Congrats bro. Mike and I are going to discuss in a future podcast/blog why 1 shot every 14 days is BUNK SCIENCE. IMO it is sad the medical community continues to push shoddy HRT protocols down unsuspecting individuals throats.

      Keep following and asking your questions.

  • Manuel

    I have had a pretty crappy time the past 10-12 months. Libido is practically non-existent, I am tired, no energy, although I push myself in the 3 days a week in the gym (I train for powerlifting/recreational bodybuilding), etc. Did my blood work (mind you I’m 26, with a healthy lifestyle and diet in check) and my T levels are 288ng/dl. I have a time at the doc in 3 days, hope he takes this seriously. Wish me luck. PS: Injections every 5-7 days, but how much pr injection?

  • eyeblion

    “Yes, just like the world is measured in BCE or BC, your life will be measured in Pre-TRT and Post-TRT.”
    Agree with all that’s presented here, but want to comment on the above statement. For years I was experiencing the classic symptoms. Looking back started at 40ish. Finally, at 54 I went thru testing by my primary physician and healthy, all tests normal. Was watching a commercial, Suzanne Somers was talking about her husband sleeping all day, like their cat, had him tested and it was due to low T.
    Went to my Dr. asked to be tested and he stated he doesn’t test for T unless asked and the scientific community had only been keeping track of this for about a decade now, his words. Sat in his office and he looked at me with a smile and said yes, you have low T! Don’t recall exact level, but between 250 & 300ng/dl. My response to him, I knew it was something, as I was no longer a man, so much for all tests normal!
    I had all the classic signs, low libido, low focus, low concentration, fatigue, low stamina, low recovery, low, low, low tank of T!
    Found a urologist and he started me on testopel pellets 75mg, four month cycle. Now the implants have drawbacks, tailing off of T levels last few weeks, but I do like the ease of implant, 10 minutes, one cut, insert tube, one stitch, no heavy workout legs or soaking for 3 days.
    Been 1.5 years now and I’m clocking in at 600ng/dl. At times I wish I was higher, but I feel good, to the point of the opening statement, I’m no longer in the Pre-TRT dark years and I’m never going back! No matter what the cost, I’m NEVER going back to Pre-TRT!

    • Anofuctus

      I’ll be damned if I ever let my Test level drop to 193ng/dl just to please some sycophant urologist who thinks he knows the fucking world about TRT and the damage that steroids
      “supposedly” can cause. This S.O.B. doesn’t know that testosterone can prevent and possibly cure prostate cancer. This guy won’t even make an appointment for me to see him for my TRT rescheduling and for the “alleged” steroid usage. The S.O.B. must be afraid that I’d rip off his fucking head for being such a damn snoop!!
      However, I’m going to avoid this doctor like the plague!

  • sj tiger

    Just had some blood work done as part of an evaluating for
    TRT.

    Came back:
    Testosterone, Serum 638 (348-1197)
    Free Testosterone(Direct) 12.5 (8.7-25.1)

    Would I see any noticeable benefits to going on TRT and
    getting my levels to the 900-1100 total / 20 free range?

    Everything else came back within range
    A few things that i took note of
    Estradiol 21.4 (7.6 – 42.6)
    Cortisol 18.4 (6.2-19.4)

  • poledaddy

    I’m in Maryland and Private MD Labs is not available. Says “due to state laws” on the site. What should I do? Can I ask my doctor for blood tests that check t-levels?

    • Danger & Play Blog

      Yep. Tell him you want free and total testosterone measured as well as estradiol.

      • poledaddy

        He agreed to prescribe the free/total testosterone test, but tells me that there is no reason to check estradiol, said it’s something women with menopause check and no reason for a man to check it, blah blah. I went back and forth with him a bit but he didn’t budge as I wasn’t prepared for him to say no to it so I didn’t have specific reasons lined up.

        There are some Private MD labs locations in DC which is driveable. I think I want to try to just go down there and get it done there instead of dealing with this B.S.

        • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

          QUACK…How big were his webbed feet?
          Bro…just pay $250 and bite the bullet. Your health is worth it man.

          • poledaddy

            I would pay $500 at this point. I’ve spent several hours looking into this and so far looks like I have few options because I’m in the people’s fucking republic of Maryland.

            My plan to use Private MD labs and just drive to DC or Virginia has hit a wall- they literally won’t let you order the test online with a Maryland address! You can’t even select it as a state in the checkout process.

            Quest Diagnostics has a lot of locations around here and they have the female hormone panel test, but they won’t give tests to anyone without a doctor rx. Says it right on their website.

            Again, where I stand now, I’m getting Free and total T checked, but my doc is refusing to add estradiol to the test. If there is some legit article or something I can use to put in his face that this isn’t just for “menopausal women” I feel like he’ll back down he’s really soft spoken/beta. I’ve gotten adderall and other shit from him over the years this is the first time he’s pushed back on anything, a fucking blood test. Are there any TRT-related forums or anything like that I might be able to connect with other guys in Maryland that have non-retarded docs?

            I was thinking of using my friend’s address in DC as my own, then use the “cash deposit” method of payment they have listed on the Private MD labs site. Not sure how much if any legal liability I (or my friend) would have there. He is in a security clearance-job in DC so I can imagine he’s going to be skiddish.

          • Danger & Play Blog

            Damn bro. That is truly oppressive.

            Can your friend order it and you go in under his name? They never check IDs at the lab I go to.

          • poledaddy

            I think what I’m going to do is use the “cash deposit” payment method for PrivateMD – you can deposit cash in their account at BOA. Then I call and make the appointment, and list my friend’s address as mine. That way even if they ask for ID, I can just give them my Maryland license and say I haven’t got a DC one yet, just moved here for a job, etc.

            We’ll see what happens.

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            Dude…just fire your Endo/Doc. Either Mike or I can send you our recent panel…and you can tell the new Quack/Doc to order these labs for me. That’s your best bet. Subterfuge is never the best option especially with US Healthcare system.

          • poledaddy

            I know my plan is subterfuge but why should I lose my rights, and need to go beg a quack just because I live in a retarded state? What if I sublet-ed my apartment and lived with my boy in DC for a month – would I magically gain my rights for that month? Maryland’s rules are retarded. What’s the worst that could happen to me anyway – they are going to email the results. Are they going to do a BI on me before they agree to do the test?

            That being said I am considering all options. If you have a minute and can send me a panel it’s poledaddy@gmail.com

          • poledaddy

            Jay- Just wanted to add that I really appreciate your offer to help me out – thank you, and I take your and Mike’s advice very seriously. I think Mike has posted his panels here in the past, so if I ever need to show them to a doc for reference, I’ll get them. As trapz described above, I think this should be pretty straightforward / not a big deal.

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            Bro..we have a Podcast coming which will definitely improve your outlook and especially your health when it comes to reading your Blood panels. Stay tuned and glad to help!

          • Danger & Play Blog

            I haven’t done the show notes yet but this video explains the male anti-aging panel we get done once a year. It’s a long video that I need to chop up, but it’s a full look at blood work for men.

          • Anofuctus

            Now that’s a good idea! Get one of these guys name, address, phone #, or email addy. Have the guy order the panel, he’ll send you the panel, you do the swab, send it back to him, he’ll send it off with his address and name or a post office box, whatever, once he gets it back, he’ll put the unopened contents in a new package and send it to you. VOILA!
            I went through the same situation with my VA doctors, but my local doctor added the test and cortisol also without hesitation.
            Most doctors can be real dickheads.

          • trapz

            I live where you do and have used the bank deposit multiple times without problems. Look up which draw site you want to use beforehand. Call privatemd right after you make the deposit and give a VA address or whatever, then just tell them what site you want. I bring a passport for ID; the lady who draws has only asked for it once. If all you got is an MD license your plan sounds fine, the place I go is not tight about it. This is an easy way to go and gives the company plausible deniability, which they need. Good luck and go get your bloods, that information should be yours no matter what shit laws the state has.

          • poledaddy

            Trapz, thanks so much man. With something like this it really helps to know others have walked the same path and succeeded with relative ease. I was stressing about this before but now I’m not at all.

  • aman

    hi i am 24 5’8 male and have been on testosterone for the past 6 years it has worked for me has increased my height by 6 inches manly voice beard and body hairs but my Dr has prescribed 250 mg every 3 weeks,however i think i should take it more frequently for the best results as, have beard but not on cheeks and very thin moustaches. i dont look that manly and have body fat although i work out alot. should i take it more frequently and will it help,need advice.

    • RagnarD

      1) Google these exact words: “How to Predict Your Testosterone Levels Better Than Your Physician Can”, download the pdf, read it, show it to your doctor.
      2) Understand this: Assuming the test your receiving is cypionate or enanthate it has a half-life of about 7 days. This means that at 7,14 and 21 days after your shot your body has metabolized 50%,75% and 87.5% of that 250mg. Your body’s natural production is shut down from the exogenous 250mg. What test you did have aromatized to estrogen and is why you’re fat even though you work out.
      3) Go back and listen to both of the podcasts on TRT
      4) Your doctor is a quack quack quack (shout out to Jay)

      • aman

        thanks bro my testosterone levels are nearly zero according to the blood test what dose should i take and how frequently.

      • Benjamin Colin

        I inject approximately 2,250 mg. of Testosterone a month. The guys at work asked, “What is you secret in staying slim and you don’t even exercise or workout”?
        I tell them it’s something they have to stick in their asses.
        They think it a damn dildo! LMAO

  • Benjamin Colin

    What’s going on with this supposed “Testosterone Scare”? Lawsuits from damage due to misuse or abuse? I’ve been doing fine with 4 1/2 years of TRT. I hope whomever is behind this BS propaganda will not be successful because it will hurt a lot of men that needs this medication.

    • Danger & Play Blog

      When lawyers see easy money, they take it. People are ignorant and ill informed. There’s money to be made and people will go take it.

      • Anofuctus

        I think I know why there is a vehement surge against testosterone.
        This may come off as a little out of left field, but I believe it a conspiracy or some bullshit. I’ve named it: “Feminizing American Men”. You take away the testosterone and you’re left with a weak, simpering, shell of a man! A sissy! LOL

        • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

          It is a FACT, the Archons (whomever or whatever they may be) want Beta Male supplicant drones for the future. To be a real man with an elevated consciousness independent of the BUNK they feed us as TRUTHS in every facet of our lives (regardless of what continent you live on), you must become SELF AWARE and do everything in your power to maintain the elements of your manhood. You can start by elevating your T-eating clean-building your body and your mind and having purposeful relationships with people who are tuned to your frequency.

          • Jeff

            http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/02/12/dna-analysis-of-paracas-elongated-skulls-released-unknown-to-any-human-primate-or-animal/

            If you ever wonder why the vast majority of the human population cannot seem to reason critically or recognize patterns in a meaningful way, thank these large headed dudes (you call them Archons, I call them melonheads) for designing them that way. They were just a much older, more intelligent race of hominids, who had big heads but otherwise looked and functioned just like us. They wanted a slave caste smart enough to do their work, but unable to revolt. So they mixed in some rhesus monkey genes (hence RH factor in human blood today) with some of their genes and some other animals, until by trial and error they got their slave, modern homo-sapiens. If they act contemptibly servile and ridiculous, it is because they are.

            When we talk about being “red pill”, really we are just expressing genes that are not from homo-sapiens. They are residual genes from “archons” or neanderthals. Neanderthals were apparently pretty bad-ass:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/garret-loporto/surprising-way-your-neand_b_568455.html

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            Hi Jeff! That article in the HP about Neanderthals is LAUGHABLE. I’m sure both of us would agree on similar and various theories of ‘alternative history’ (I pretty much agree with your comment above) but to say Neanderthals altered our DNA (as the article posits)is LUDICROUS. Now if you wanna tell me the Annunaki and various other ADVANCED BEINGS (label em what you want) had something to do with it-now we’re talking. And I’m sure the Neanderthals were spliced with Homo Sapiens Sapiens DNA and Monkeys and…whatever else these early geneticists were throwing into their boiling cauldrons. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your site…I will surely read it over time. I would also recommend an amazing book about the things we’re discussing-We’ve Never Been Alone by Paul Von Ward. A truly seminal work filled with voluminous research on how our global history was most likely shaped. http://www.amazon.com/Weve-Never-Been-Alone-Extraterrestrial/dp/1571746668/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400383611&sr=1-1&keywords=We%27ve+Never+Been+Alone

          • Jeff

            There is indisputable proof neanderthals and homo-sapiens interbred ~35k years ago, and that neanderthal genes are still active in the population today. They produce a very distinct metabolic and cognitive profile. For example:

            http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/neanderthal-gene-cluster-more-common-europeans

            Mainstream academics and media have done a 180 degree spin on neanderthals, now saying they were too intelligent (and charming) to survive alongside homo-sapiens:

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2062696/Neanderthals-clever-interbred-impressed-humans-say-experts.html

            I will definitely check out that book. I honestly think what happened 100k years ago is in some ways as important as what happened yesterday. Sad but we’ll probably never know exactly what happened. Also, just fyi, the collective evolution site is not mine, though it is interesting.

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            Jeff…I have no doubt there was intermingling of the various Hominid Species throughout history. You have no quarrel with me whatsoever when you say Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens Sapiens inter breeded. But I will LAUGH OUT LOUD when somebody says (as that article does) that the vast leap forward in Human Evolution occurred due to that mating. PURE HOGWASH. We are the product of AB (Advanced Being) DNA experimentation. There are volumes of research from civilizations past (many which have been fully translated and interpreted) stating this. Why Modern science continues to suppress our true ancestry is anybody’s guess. Please stay in touch my friend. jay@fabfitover40.com

  • Bullseye

    For someone who enjoys travelling, will being on TRT make you relatively location static? Or can you still travel to a certain extent whilst being on TRT? Thanks.

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      Bro…you pre fill your darts or hopefully get them from your Dr already that way and you take them with you in your toiletries bag. No big deal.

    • Danger & Play Blog

      People travel with TRT. It’s medication like anything else. I many countries it’s OTC.

  • Tren

    I inject Tren
    I eat Tren
    I think Tren
    I sleep Tren
    I Tren Tren

  • too long in london

    Hi Mike/Jay,
    I may have testosterone issues (I’m diabetic so am “at-risk”, and do have a number of “classic” symptoms) but my doctor is very unlikely to ever recommend or prescribe test. She did put a hormone test in my blood screen, although that’s not for 6-8 weeks (NHS). Is taking something like Andro-plus or another topical gel an effective option, even if not as much as taking injectables?

    Or should I just switch doctors?
    I’m 29, so I have thought it’s probably early for me to do either yet, and it may be.

    • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

      Listen to our podcasts fully and keep reading this blog. 29 is not too young provided you have the rest of your life dialed in. Creams and Gels are essentially worthless.

  • Jay N Danielle

    Hi today.is my second injection day .I’m running 800mgs a week..how long to feel the full kick???

  • Jay N Danielle

    Hi today is my second injection date and I’m running 800mgs a week. How long to fill the full kick…any body????

    • Benjamin Colin

      Dude! You’re doing a “Jay Cutler”! LOL WTF are you trying to achieve at that weekly dosage? Lose your liver or have a heart attack? DAMN!!! I inject once a month 1,500-2,500mg. and I’m not running after trophies!

      • Jay N Danielle

        I just wanna look great before I run 100mgs of tren

        • Anofuctus

          So you’re inferring to bulk up on that dosage then lose most of your bulk and go into a cutting phase to simply look good for the summer?
          Me? I try to stay lean year around by keeping my body fat hovering around 10-13%. So when I decide to sign up for a contest, in year or two, that’s when I’d use trenbolone to get to 8-9% and come in looking really hard. Good luck to you in your quest for that chiseled physique.

    • C.P.
  • Benjamin Colin

    Go ahead and tell your doctor that you want estradiol, free and total test checked!!!!!
    DAMN! Doctors kicked me off TRT for life just for asking for those tests. Go to your local doc or online for testing.
    I never needed the TRT anyway. Just wanted to save a few bucks. I’ve got enough stuff to last 10 years maybe more!! BTW, this stuff has a shelf-life of 20+ years if kept dry and contained.
    Shit! I’ll be 100 years old when I run out! LOL

  • C.P.

    Quick question for Mike (and fellow readers/listeners of D&P). As recommended by D&P, I have been using smaller needles to reduce muscular scarring. The problem is that every time I have used a syringe with a smaller diameter that 22 gauge, the injection site swells and itches for about four days after the injection. This swelling is usually about an inch in diameter by half an inch in height. It is hard and feels like a large marble is under my skin. What gives? It is large enough to see from across the room. I have tried to vary my injection speed, heating the syringe, and I have tried a couple of different syringe diameters. Nothing has helped. Besides being an annoyance to me, I am worried that this swelling could cause tissue damage over time. Could there be a slight allergic reaction going on? Am I doing something wrong with the injection? I have been injecting .25 mLs of Test Cyp twice weekly into my quads with a 29 gauge or 25 gauge x 5/8 inch needle.

    • Danger & Play Blog

      Yes, sounds like an allergic reaction caused by the alcohol that’s in testosterone. (There are various antibacterials in an injectables. Some guys (Jay included) cannot tolerate Ethyl oleate, which is in a lot of injectables. So that may be what’s causing the issue.

      • C.P.

        Thanks Mike. So that said, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Keep using Test Cyp so long as the reaction isn’t bad? Maybe I should use the issue as a springboard to talk with my Doc about Test Prop as a different option. Although if it caused the same reaction as Test Cyp, the added weekly injection of Test Prop could be a bigger annoyance. Honestly the annoyance isn’t an issue, I just don’t want any long term problems because of it.

        • Danger & Play Blog

          Tell your doc that you’re having a reaction and think it might be due to the type of alcohol / antibacterial in the vial. See if you can get a different blend.

          • C.P.

            Thanks again Mike. I will do that. This is yet another thing that I could not find any decent information on elsewhere on the web. This is just another thing that sets Danger and Play apart from the everyone else. Even though I couldn’t get it elsewhere, I got an answer to my question directly from you within minutes of asking.

          • http://fabfitover40.com Jay

            Hey Bro…sorry I didn’t see this before. You are having an allergic histamine reaction to either Ethyl Oleate or Propylene Glycol from the particulants keeping the T ester stable. Happens to a lot of guys. You’re going to likely need a new formulation of the product. You definitely need to be careful as they can lead to infections for sure. Hopefully changing the brand/type of T will help your cause.

          • C.P.

            Thank you, Jay. I appreciate your response! By new formulation, do you mean try a different manufacturer of Testosterone Cypionate before switching to a different type? I have injected both Watson and Perrigo brands of Test Cyp and have had the same response. Or should I switch over to Testosterone Propinate or another form? If I were to switch over to another form, is the milligram dosage the same? Also, are there any varieties of injectables you would avoid?

          • Benjamin Colin

            Ethyl Oleate and propylene gIycol HUH? I’m one of the most allergic people on the planet. Why don’t I break out from Watson which I’ve used for years and still using, E.O nor P.G. never bothered me. I think it’s the shaking, nervous, and the shortness of needle that is causing your trouble. That is what I experienced when I was allowed to do my home injections. The needle was everywhere, aching, bleeding, swelling, bruised quarter size welts. I decided to relax put the shot out of my mind. Within a few weeks I maybe a professional injector! lol.
            I’ve been been using 70-90% Isoproply Alcohol, 21-22gauge needles, 1 1/2 in length, and cotton swabs for close to a decade with no problems.

          • C.P.

            It’s funny you’d mention needle length. I discovered that this problem only occurs with needles shorter than an inch in length. I can inject Test Cyp or Test Enanthate with no adverse reactions with a 25 gauge x 1″ needle. I experimented with needle stabilization and injection speed to no avail.

  • RagnarD

    Pharmacy tech today tried to give me 21Gx1.5″ to backfill and a 3ML 18Gx1.5 WHALE HARPOON to pin with. After enlightening her w/ some of the knowledge I’ve learned on this site we had a good laugh…also got her #, so she will soon be experiencing some rough bedroom activities, which can also be found on this site :)…

  • Timmy Jimmy

    Hey can anyone tell me what the significance is of what’s going on in the face during a DEXA scan that Danger&Play’s twitter showed today (May 27th) on their stream? Especially with it’s relevance to TRT?

  • Rafael.

    Can someone explain to me or point to a serious study about the relationship between low T and muscle gain?

    I suspect I have low T but I hit the gym real hard and I´m able to gain muscle. I´m 39 and I´ve been feeling a lack of energy lately.

    I still have morning wood but my libido right now is low. It could be because I´m focusing on work and taking my carrer to the next level.

    • Danger & Play Blog

      There are like 4 podcasts bro. TRT has been beaten to death. I *may* be one more post, and that’s it.

    • Dman

      Bro, come on. Why suspect anything? Get blood work done for $50 and KNOW what’s going on. Lack of energy could be due to many things, including focusing on work. We can’t answer these questions for you on the internet, but you can answer them yourself. Just do it!

      Now that I have done it, I’m increasingly conscious of how reluctant/wary people are of TRT (not saying you are, just general observation). The idea that steroids = bad is so ingrained in the culture it’s crazy. Yet people pop Paxil like candy. I’m starting to sound like D&P.

  • wax

    Am so happy to share with you every one, of what some one
    has done for me how some one has
    restored my life back and has put a smile on my face and left me with nothing
    but joy and peace of mind. I was suffering from weak erection and that made my
    wife left me because I was not able to give her a child non make her feel like
    a woman. It was not getting better so will separated and she re- married while
    I remain single again. It was on 23 of last month that was when I was introduce
    to Dr Alaska I narrated my problems to him and how I was also sack from work he
    promise me that he was going to fix every thing and he actually did because
    today am happily married with 3 kids and am the production manager in my
    company today am grateful for all his help. If you are in any of this problems
    relating to mine please contact him because he is waiting for you dralaskajohn@gmail.com or call him +2348169591194

  • Yassine Driouche

    Hi,

    In the podcast, at the 9th minute you talk about how guys who are endomorphic and carry estrogenic fat should take something extra when on TRT, what is it ? Anti inhibitors ? Some serum ? Tried several times to listen to this specific part of the podacst but didn’t understand it. Could you give more details, dosages etc ? English is not my native language…

    Thanks in advance.

    • http://www.fabfitover40.com/ FabulouslyFitOver40

      Hello Yassine.

      Men who are naturally endomorphic need more Estrogen suppression then men who are leaner (Mesomorphic/Ectomorphic). Fat tissue is highly sensitive to estrogen conversion. Especially in Type 2A receptor areas. Think stubborn body fat tissue found in the love handles-breast and upper back. Your answers are found in all of our podcasts but because English is not your first language I’m gonna reiterate for you.

      You should have Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) and Aromasin on hand in order to prevent any serious estrogenic side effects. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to also have some Cabergoline (Cabaser) and Torefimene on hand to deal with any HPTA suppression or issues.

      Good Luck my friend!

      • Yassine Driouche

        Hi FabulouslyFitOver40,

        Thank you for your reply, I have Arimidex and Clomid. I just don’t know how much I should take if I see any side effect. I don’t want to make any mistake, I will be starting TRT soon following the removal of an adenoma that damaged my pituatary gland. My endocrinologits wants me on enanthate 250mg every 2 weeks. I decided to go for prop 50mg EOD like advised in the podcast.

        Thanks !

        • Yassine Driouche

          Any Idea on the dosages ?

          Thanks.

      • Yassine Driouche

        Thanks man, can you give me more info on dosages and lenghts of taking or maybe where i can get the info please ? I indeed have stubborn fat in the areas you desribed, my progesterone and estradiol levels are in the normal range though. I don’t want to make any mistake and will start my trt very soon (hospital appointment on Monday…)

        Really looking forward to your answer.

        Thanks !

      • Typical Male

        Jay, can you elaborate on “HPTA suppression”? What could happen?

  • JQ

    Hey guys… along with Mike Mahler’s stuff this has become my favorite website… thankyou for your relavant and pertainent material… actually got my doc to prescribe proprionate 200mg a week which i was going to break down to eod but there wasn’t a pharmacy around that could deliver… switched over to enenthate going 60mg e3d but I think 100mg e5d like was suggested in this post will work fine… my battle is with estrogen and thyroid… trying to lock it in feel like a super hero some days and other days feel like crap… the size of my arms fluctuates so much… my other battle is with hairloss definitely accelerates with injections and triazole (best natural anti-e out there)… so when i pop a few saw palmettos i feel a dip in energy too… i think my best bet is to accept the hair loss and stop taking the dht blockers… no doubt i “feel” my best with high dht… just want to lock it in… any advice? water retention in face comes and goes as well…

    • Danger & Play Blog

      It sounds like you have a lot going on at once. That’s the problem with taking too many pills and why I personally would only start with test and then get labs done and then add one new pill at a time, over the course of several weeks until everything was dialed in.

      Did you experiment with injection timing? Every 5th day might work for some but not you.

      Every body is different. To dial it in, only work on one variable at a time. Measure your results. Go from there.

      • JQ

        Thanks mike. Strong advice. Yeah my plethora of supplements are causing confusion, and i haven’t really allowed the T to settle in on its own… Will let the Test do its thing and adjust accordingly…

        • http://www.fabfitover40.com/ FabulouslyFitOver40

          Brother…..this should be you:

          • JQ

            Hahahaha… Yes!

  • JQ

    e2 and thyroid readings were fine with last bloodwork, just don’t know whats accounting for the rollercoaster, and daily body composition changes… just trying to get it locked in

  • JQ

    I have heard those with a low shbg reading don’t respond well to TRT, given that the injections would give a strong rise to dht and estrogen, any truth to that?

    • Danger & Play Blog

      For some, yes. There’s a reason I saw what I say and do what I do. The *best* TRT for people is one that will not cause any massive rises or falls in testosterone. Daily esterless testosterone injections would be the platinum standard. Test prop EOD is gold standard. Everything else is bronze.

      Bronze works great for most. Many guys do test cyp every 5-7 days and feel amazing. Others struggle.

      That’s why blood work and analysis and experimentation must be done on an individual level.

      At the end of the day, the only person qualified to answer a man’s question is that selfsame man.

      • Typical Male

        wouldn’t Test Cyp be better than T Prop, in terms of Cyp having a longer half-life. Thus making one less prone to ups and downs of a quick decaying T Prop?

        • Danger & Play Blog

          This has been discussed in the numerous podcasts and posts.

          • Typical Male

            I listened to the podcasts a while back. I didn’t remember it being addressed much beyond that Prop is more like what your body produces. That’s why I’m a big fan of transcripts. Thanks for the recap. I will go back to the podcasts.

        • http://www.fabfitover40.com/ FabulouslyFitOver40

          You need to listen to the podcasts a bit more. We address this multiple times. Half lives are relative. Prop also mimics the body’s natural production much more closely too.

  • SPURS1980

    OK, I’m trying not to panic here. So I went to a out-of-network GP and they did blood work and urine because I was having ED, libido problems, and exhaustion. Cost me $500. Test came back and everything was fine except my T levels were low at 249. I’m only 34 years old. They recommended I get my LH, FSH, and Prolactin tested (not really sure what they are) and I may need to see a Dr for TRT. They recommended I find one in-network as this was going to get expensive.

    For the past 48 hours I have read everything I can find on TRT, Low T, and treatment options. I have an appointment with an in-network GP on Monday but they already seemed to indicate that if the LH, FSH, and Prolactin tests came back that I did in fact have Low T that they would want me to see a Urologist. However, there are no Urologists that take my insurance. Seriously. I have called my insurance company and they currently don’t have any urologists. That seems negligent, but oh well. Now I feel like I’m screwed. My understanding is that a GP can prescribe TRT. Is that wrong? Anyone have any advice on how to have my GP prescribe (if I need it)? Also, my insurance only covers injections, not the gel. If he does prescribe gel, what does that typically cost out of pocket?

    Any help would be appreciated. I’m very discouraged and frustrated here.

  • http://www.forex-system.sk marian

    Hello Danger and Play. My update. After reading the article I decided to give it a shot. To overcome my& natural production I went 100 EOD TestProp with proviron. Exercise in gym every day I dont take a shot (In those days I exercise neck and try to do something fun like long walk or tennis, or orgy session ) so far no sides at all. Gained about 4 kg. I get compliments everywhere I go. I went to 2 weeks greece holiday and I been drinking all day everyday , no muscle lost. Libido is 50 percent better, have to come at least 2X times day. Power went up. Recovery about two times better. I wake up with full muscles. Psyche changes – I do not even remember how i felt before. I do not think I am coming off. Thanks guys have a nice day !

  • http://www.optimalwellnesscenters.com/ Anti Aging Medical Clinic

    Great information guys! We follow much on the same protocol at our clinic Age Management Optimal Wellness Centers located in Tampa, FL. We see that as long as your hormone levels are tested periodically and careful measures are taken, then the major concerns of TRT will be eliminated. You can find more on our protocol at http://www.agemanagementoptimalwellness.com/testosterone-therapy/

  • akhil

    low testosterone , low confidence. please help me I m in deep stress and trouble. stress is mainly due to low testosterone and they say low testosterone is caused by stress. SPERM COUNT DEAD BECAUSE OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPLEMENTS.
     
    im 26 years old. I have always been concerned about the dick size. I always thought mine is smaller since childhood but never got courage to go to the doctor. one of my gf also commented the size is small n that ruined my confidence that if I will ever be able to satisfy my wife.   I was really in my teenage never played sports was very lazy and my diet was poor too. past 4-5 years my diet has improved and started working out.  my size is 4.1.0 inch when erect .. I m 5″11 and my weight is 79 kgs ( 175 pounds)..I masturbate by stroking my tool in between the legs thighs without using my hand.    I went to a sexologist on 14th September 2013
    regarding my size . he wrote a few tests.
    14th sept 2013 – SEMEN ANALYSIS- –  total sperm count 50 million , VOLUME 2ML
             ultrasound of  scotrum came normal
           TESTOSTERONE FREE : 2.99pg/ml    normal value – 3.84-34.2
           T3 TT4 TSH CAME ALL NORMAL
          PROLACTIN – 10.96NG/ML  ( NORMAL – 2.1-17.7).
           FSH AND LH CAME ALL NORMAL
       TESTOSTERONE TOTAL –  400.23 ng/dl (NORMAL – 241-827)
    COMPLETE BLOOD PICTURE CAME NORMAL.
     
    I never had any erection problems.  after above investigations I was told my testosterone is less and due to that my size is not big. I was prescribed cernos gel ( andro gel )    eutrial-AT twice a day , NANO-LEO  and paxidep cr 12.5..  I even did the therapy of the pump  which he said will improve size and premature ejac. I did 15 sessions  but did not help.   I was then getting the shot of testosterone ( cernos depot) and continued with the medicines. I had to stop the medicines because kept on getting sore throats and was on high antibiotics. I thoughts these medicines getting me sore throat. later I came to know I have small hiatus hernia and GERD. never had any acidity symptoms but just the sorethroat.  For that I m taking razo 20 and ganaton 50mg and never had a sorethroat since.
    I got the testosterone shot ( cernos depot ) in December 2013 and February 2014. I realized i have been gaining weight because of the shot. is it true? I have been working out and watching my diet since 4 months and lost 6 kgs (13 lbs). I don’t know its because of the gym or because of ample amount of stress ive been having.   I visited the sexologist recently and asked him how long do i need to take the medicines and testosterone supplement to which he asked me to do the tests again.
    9th july 2014 – SPERM ANALYSIS – no sperm count.NIL.volume 1.0cc ( TIME OF COLLECTION 4 pm)                  
                            TESTOSTERONE FREE – 5.72 ( normal value 3.84- 34.2)
                             TESTOSTERONE TOTAL- 346.24ng/dl ( sample collection evening time)
                             DHEA                                  3.15 ng/ml (  1.80 – 12.5)
     
         TT3,TT4, AND TSH CAME NORMAL
    LUTEINISING HORMOME CAME LOW – 0.15 mIU/ML ( 1.5-9.3)
    PROLACTIN         9.62 NG/ML   ( 2.1-17.7)
     
    ABOVE SAMPLE COLLECTION WAS IN THE EVENING.  
    Doctor asked me to take the testosterone shot , wrote paxidep 12.5 and eutrail and zinc supplements for 3 months. I did not take and went to take a second opinion. 
     
    sperm count that came NIL is that due to testosterone supplements? Will it get normal? is that related to the way I masturbate? 
     
    To take a second opinon I went to another sexologist who is more experienced. He told me the size of tool is fine and no matter how much testosterone supplements I take it will not increase the size. He asked me to get the tests done again. 
     
    THE SAMPLE WERE TAKEN EARLY MORNING IN FASTING AT 10 AM
     
    PROLACTIN – 16.2         ( 2.5-17)
    HUMAN SEX HORMONE – 26.48 NMOL/L ( 16.5-55.9)
    TOTAL TESTOSTERONE –  410.5 
    SPERM ANALYSIS – 0.5 VOLUME , 1 MILLIONS SEVERE OLIGOSPERMIA. 
    IS THIS BECAUSE OF TESTOSTERONE SHOTS? 
     
    The second doctor asked me not to take testosterone shots.  He prescribed me  CB-LIN 0.25 once a week for 3 months and antoxid capsules daily. According to him my prolactin is high and with CB-LIN prolactin levels will go down and testosterone will increase ? Is that true?  At the time I gave prolactin test I was going through good amount of stress may be that’s the reason the result came high.
     
    I have no clue who to trust and whose opinion to take. 
     
    Is my testosterone low as per my age because on every forum it shows testosterone of a 26 year old male should be more than 600..

     Reply

     

    • Benjamin Colin

      Test is low but should be 200mg. higher. If I were you I’d self-inject the rest or find a good TRT doctor.. And ditch the sexologist!!! It’s up to you!

  • Sammy

    since I have been on TRT I have become supper sensitive during sex. can’t last long.

  • King Karn Korn

    Where can I get this therapy for $200 or less per month. $395 is way too much.